4 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

It was literally dead

Yes, and the 'It' was DOA by comparison to what MSFS is already.

1 minute ago, marsman2020 said:

It was literally dead from 2006 until 2016-ish (assuming that's approximately when the the tech demos that became MSFS started).  In fact I'd consider what happened with MS Flight to be worse than dead, where they came out with a new thing with my hype and fanfare about all the things it would do and then killed it again. 

Everyone should get out and enjoy this things and buy as much stuff from the Marketplace as you can afford, but I think it's really naive to think that it isn't subject to being killed again at any time if MS decides it's not in the interest of their business to continue it.  And the consequences of such a decision would have a potentially much larger impact on our future enjoyment of the software given that a majority of the content streams down from the cloud.

Simmin was never dead, as can be seen by the amount of freeware& payware support over the years..

We must go out & buy from the Marketplace as much as we can afford???

That is really a lot of rubbish.. Microsoft is not a charity, & their multi trillion dollar business does not rally need gamer support to keep their doors, virtually open. 

Do tell where this doom prophecy, after 3 months, that MS needs support from us gamers? You forget that they are releasing MSFS on Xbox in the future. That market is far bigger than the current non-console gaming market. So, no, I will not be buying as much as I can afford from the Marketplace. I will be supporting the backbone of our hobby, the freeware developers.

Just now, Wobbie said:

Microsoft is not a charity, & their multi trillion dollar business does not rally need gamer support to keep their doors, virtually open. 

Microsoft is a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize the value of their stock.  If they think in the future that MSFS is not contributing to that in a meaningful way, they will kill it off.  Period.  Just like ACES in 2006.  Nothing in the EULA binds them to providing any specific amount of support for any duration.  Developer statements in Q&As are not binding on the company in any way.

These are facts.  Microsoft is a publicly traded company and every product they release/support is evaluated to make sure it contributes to the bottom line.

The best way to make sure that Microsoft sees that MSFS is contributing is to make purchases on the Marketplace.

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yes, and the 'It' was DOA by comparison to what MSFS is already.

You are obviously not aware of the thousands of add-ons, & the variations of aircraft that have been released over the last 16 (or whatever) years?

Taake away the Azure Bing, and you have a handful of GA aircraft, plenty of sim issues, as wll as controller issues. 

2 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Microsoft is a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize the value of their stock.  If they think in the future that MSFS is not contributing to that in a meaningful way, they will kill it off.  Period.  Just like ACES in 2006.  Nothing in the EULA binds them to providing any specific amount of support for any duration.  Developer statements in Q&As are not binding on the company in any way.

These are facts.  Microsoft is a publicly traded company and every product they release/support is evaluated to make sure it contributes to the bottom line.

The best way to make sure that Microsoft sees that MSFS is contributing is to make purchases on the Marketplace.

Erm.. those are 3rd party add-ons. They need confidence in their core product, not add-on sales.

 

28 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

Erm.. those are 3rd party add-ons. They need confidence in their core product, not add-on sales.

 

They only get to charge us $60-$120 once, there are only so many sales they will ever make of the base sim.  Future development is going to depend on the Marketplace revenue, if they think they can sell us on $60-$120 1st party addons like Helicopters or 1st party aircraft, or if they think that the overall perception of the sim has enough value to the Microsoft/XBox brand to just support it at a financial loss.

I would not depend on the last one.

Edited November 17, 20205 yr by marsman2020

Just now, marsman2020 said:

They only get to charge us $60-$120 once, there are only so many sales they will ever make of the base sim.  Future development is going to depend on the Marketplace revenue, if they think they can sell us on $60-$120 1st party addons like Helicopters or 1st party aircraft, or if they think that the overall perception of the sim has enough value to the Microsoft/XBox brand to just support it at a financial loss.

You are aware that there are hundreds of on-line stores where people can buy their add-ons? The Marketplace is not the only outlet that developers can use? & obviously many do not.

Just now, Wobbie said:

You are aware that there are hundreds of on-line stores where people can buy their add-ons? The Marketplace is not the only outlet that developers can use? & obviously many do not.

Sure, if everyone goes and buys on 3rd party sites where MS doesn't get a cut, then the community has opted to depend on the last item - that Microsoft thinks the general perception of their brands is improved enough by MSFS to support it even at a financial loss.

If you all want to stick your heads in the sand and roll that dice, there's nothing I can do to stop it.

I think people are thinking too much. Its only been out for 3 months. Even if it bombs from here onwards it will be around for several years more. I haven't seem any mainstream game - no matter how poorly it was received - shutting up shop after 1 years. We are not dealing with an indie band here.

Edited November 17, 20205 yr by sanh

1 minute ago, marsman2020 said:

Sure, if everyone goes and buys on 3rd party sites where MS doesn't get a cut, then the community has opted to depend on the last item - that Microsoft thinks the general perception of their brands is improved enough by MSFS to support it even at a financial loss.

If you all want to stick your heads in the sand and roll that dice, there's nothing I can do to stop it.

 

Not asking you to stop it. We will, obviously go to where we find the add-ons we want, it's a hobby, not a charity, no need to start getting upset after only 3 months. 

I don't why everyone keeps going on about income from the marketplace whilst failing to mention Game Pass. Game Pass is precisely the type of income that MS likes i.e. regular payments. MFS is part of a suite of games that MS is hoping will drive customers to start using Game Pass and then keep using because of the range of games available on Game Pass. You don't even have to buy your Xbox up front but pay for it gradually over a 3 year period along with Game Pass Ultimate IIRC. There's a reason why MFS appeared regularly on Xbox promo vids. The head of Xbox has been quite clear about this in various vids so it's hardly a secret.

The time to worry about MFS still being supported is probably in about 5 years or so when MS are looking to replace the current "new" Xbox.

Edited November 17, 20205 yr by SamYeager

59 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

The main difference, apart from license agreements with commercial equipment manufacturers, is functionality, as seen when comparing the professional version with the entertainment version. Lets call the Complex aircraft, instead of 'study level'.. makes more sense,,actually. 

Well, as far as the big professional simulator manufacturers go, they develop their own dedicated sims, depending on what particular aircraft they need a sim for. Those are far more sophisticated than any other mass market simulator. 

Lets face it... take away the scenery, MSFS is really not much better than any other sim. So, maybe for a professional commercial sim manufacturer, they could, in future, be able to license Bing Azure cloud for their sims. Then, pro sims are procedural based sims,, have a look at the Frasca manufacturer & their offering. It's not the realism that the pro guys want, they have it already, it's the immersion. A story I often tell, is watching real pilots fly the sims that we've built up at our virtual flying club, where the pilots 'bump' themselves in their seats, anticipating touchdown, & we fly IFR & VFR, such is the immersion. AND thats in FS2004!!!

Do the professional sims model weather and geography as good as MSFS though?  I would think the professional sims are missing things that they should be simulating.  From what you are telling me, the professional sims are very good for practicing procedures.  But isn't a simulator more than procedures?  Now if MSFS can match the professional sims in procedures, I would think it makes sense for commercial companies to seriously consider MSFS (perhaps you meant that the professional sims are very detailed for procedures that target a specific plane).

FS2004 and FSX does not model weather as well as MSFS.  And the flight model for FS2004 and FSX is not nearly as advanced as MSFS: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/modern-flight-model/232844/3.

Have you ever flown in a professional sim? Boeing, Airbus, or any other of the sims that are licensed for training?

The professional sims are built for a particular aircraft, by the way. MSFS, cannot ever match a dedicated pro sim, due to it's complexity that a game cannot ever manage to emulate. Of course procedures are amongst the most important for a sim. I worked on a sim, made by Frasca, that was dedicated to an aircraft. Normally, an instructor sets up a flight & the pilot flies, with the instructor injecting issues & failures as need be. Most, if not all pro sims are heavy in IFR training, So scenery is not that important. in fact, we originally had simple scenery graphics. It was not important to have photo real 3D scenery, Weather is also injected into the sim, as required. 

Yet another story is that we had a young female pilot visit our VA clubhouse, as she had been offered a job with DHL, flying in & out of Luton in the UK.

Well, she practice procedures for quite a while,went for her interview & got the job. Using a freeware aircraft & freeware scenery..Weather.. we adapted for her.

Microsoft will have most of the income based on the in game store, both on pc and xbox. Its one massive reason why so many 3party developers are on board with in game mfs store, and that is because of the sim will be both on pc and xbox, and they will sell their scenery and aircraft on both the pc and xbox store in the future doubling their customer base. Its all about the money.

4 hours ago, marsman2020 said:

If they think in the future that MSFS is not contributing to that in a meaningful way...

Yes but they won't think this for many years until they crank out next gen MSFS2025 🙂