1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

Just a quick check at my standard RNAV test location:

KTPA RNAV R01L still only shows FITPA, missing PIE as an IAF..

Am I missing something?

Is that a point on an arrival?  On the FAA plate PIE is not marked as an IAF.  Also, try loading the approach with FITPA as the transition and see if it does not list it twice, then SNORK (on the PROC page).  That may be an indication of a course reversal in the database.  I have not had an opportunity to fly one like that, but I noted that it indicates the waypoint twice when the transition is at an acute angle.   Look at it as you select it in the PROC screen.  When I went to the FltPlan screen for KBKL the flight plan page did not show it that way.

On my gtn, PIE appears as a transition option.

Edited May 25, 20215 yr by Bert Pieke

3 hours ago, cwburnett said:

Not to necro this thread, but maybe better than starting a fresh one.  I wanted to call special attention to the updated nav data in SU4. We worked in partnership with Asobo to get the FAA dataset added to the AIRAC cycle, so default data should now have complete* procedures for all FAA regulated airports. This added ~6000 procedures to the US airspace -- a major improvement thanks to the hard work over at Asobo.

*It is worth noting that we're still working with the team on getting circling-only approaches added to the nav system, and that enhancement will hopefully make an appearance in one of the next updates, so that's still an open item, but in the meantime many more US airports have procedures that were previously missing.

More to come on this topic in future updates as we move closer and closer to a comprehensive nav database included with the base sim.

Definitely noticed this after loading SU4. My home airport (KELM) is one where all 6 approaches have been AWOL since the sim was initially released, and all are now present. Great job bringing the FAA CIFP database into the mix.

2 hours ago, Mike S KPDX said:

"Navigraph data installs into the Community folder like any other addon/mod and overwrites the default sim nav data in the MSFS virtual file system (VFS)"

wait... what???

I have not purchased this product for MSFS 2020 because I did not see the utility of having access to extensive navigation info if it was not in the sim.  I mean why buy if you have say an ILS approach from navigraph but can fly it because that ILS freq (and other items) are not in the sim.  I knew this wall worked together well in FSX/P3D (which I do not own).  But I understood one could not modify the in game nav data as that was proprietary locked by Asobo.

Are you saying here that you do indeed overwrite the entire in game nav database?  How long does that take to load each time you startup?

Navigraph (when present) also sets the locations and frequencies of all in-game default ILSs and VORs so they should always correspond to current Navigraph charts. Navigraph does not delete, change or overwrite the default database in any way, but when Navigraph nav data is present in the Community folder, it takes priority over the default data and will be used in lieu of the default.

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

On my gtn, PIE appears as a transition option.

Understand.  Which GTN?

5 minutes ago, fppilot said:

Understand.  Which GTN?

P3DV5 version.. and all the ones before it.. 😉

33 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

P3DV5 version.. and all the ones before it.. 😉

Yea, I can't tell if it's a transition and not an IAF from looking at the chart. I should know I guess, but I've literally never flown an approach like that IRL, always vectors. But...I haven't checked yet, but it might be worth seeing if the CJ4 0.12.5 offers PIE as a transition for the approach or not with default data.

2 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

On my gtn, PIE appears as a transition option.

I cannot find PIE in the updated MSFS database.  I attempted to configure a flight plan from KRSW to KTPA with PIE as a waypoint.  It wasn't in the database. 

KPIE? Yes.  PIE? No.

I used KPIE instead and then selected the RNAV 1L approach via FITPA.  It appears to put FITPA in the procedure twice, possibly indicating a course reversal there (see first image below).  However then looking at the FPL page FITPA does not even show (second image).  Strange!  I have not had time to fly it yet.

 

Edited May 26, 20215 yr by fppilot

KPIE is the airport, PIE is the VOR..

I also have seen the IAF (in this case FITPA) removed in other flightplans... when selecting an approach.

Edited May 26, 20215 yr by Bert Pieke

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

KPIE is the airport, PIE is the VOR..

Well aware of that.  Strange that the VOR is not in the database.  In regard to the no-show IAF, I plan to fly the route I profiled above tomorrow just to see the behaviour in the sim.  I believe I have had some other occasions where elements of an approach were not shown in the flight plan but were flown during the approach.

Edited May 26, 20215 yr by fppilot

25 minutes ago, fppilot said:

 I believe I have had some other occasions where elements of an approach were not shown in the flight plan but were flown during the approach.

This can happen across different planes for various reasons I've noticed. Reloading / re-activating the approach from whichever GPS menu fixes it sometimes, but not always.

17 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

This can happen across different planes for various reasons I've noticed. Reloading / re-activating the approach from whichever GPS menu fixes it sometimes, but not always.

Reloading (reselecting) the approach has not worked.  Reactivating? I was still on the ground at my departure airport. No way can you activate an approach that early.  I will test some scenarios tomorrow.  So far I am finding it difficult to transiton to MSFS from IFR flight and avionics of what is now basically a15 year old simulator and at least 12 year old addon avionics. And those avionics have been updated in the last three or four years, adding to that gap.

I feel a bit like Hansel in Hansel and Gretel.  And even then still some of the bread crumbs are still missing....

Reality X Please!

 

Edited May 26, 20215 yr by fppilot

Some approaches are bugged, and the transitions are not always reliable. I have activated the approach while still on the ground before, not sure if it causes issues or not. 

There are even still ILS issues where the plane comes in too low and doesn't clear the obstacles at the correct elevation on the 3 degree glidepath. Problem is when you build an airport from scratch, you have to place the ILS so the ILS lights line up with the photo-scenery, unless you make your own ILS lights. In the case where it aligns like this, the plane will come in too low because of the way the ILS calculates the glideslope based on the positioning of the ILS.

Also, sometimes (at least some planes) will not get a proper approach angle unless you are lined up way before the final fix, they will come in slightly jack-knifed or at an angle even for an ILS / precision approach. 

These are all things that still need tweaked in the code by Asobo.

IMO, the ILS coord positioning should be ignored by the code, and just calculated as the runway edge + a few feet margin of error (unless a 3PD specifically chooses to override it), that would fix most of the problems right there, because the game knows where it draws its own runways. The way 3PD have to add or override ILS to airports right now is also really odd.

Edited May 26, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery