What should happen when a GA plane deploys flaps?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

The significant thing about flying an aircraft like a 172 when applying flaps on final is:

• the initial thing you "feel seat of the pants" is a nose up tendency and a loss of speed
• but the actual end result once you adjust attitude for the same approach speed as before, is you descend at the same rate and on the same glide path as before deploying more flaps - but your attitude is more nose down
• a side effect later on will be your stall speed will be a touch lower in flare

Edited February 25, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[RandallR 451]

In flight training on my 2500 ft turf runway, we always used 10° flaps on both 152 and 172. The only time we added more flaps is if we were high.

The only time I ever used full flaps on a 152, was when I was held high while an airliner landed in front of me at a larger airport. I then had to dive for the runway, and used full flaps to help.

[Manny 1,293]

3 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Yes  dragging full flapped 172 with power in shallow approach is discourage. But certainly fuel injected 180 hp where neither worry of 40 degrees flaps or carb heat which reduce power significantly . Frankly I do not first solo my student on 3000 ft runway initially. I have luxury of 4300 ft.   runway.LOL Later, however, they go and land on 3000 runway for short filed landing. We have plenty of those with hills, power lines and threes around. Unless it's in Palm Spring in midth of summer it's not a biggie here in SoCal even with 160hp 

52Foxtrot North west regional is notorious for some freak accidents.

Remember I said, the trees/wooded area at the south end of the runway we need to watch out for when going around landing on runway 17 (North to South which is 80% of the time) , during the 20% of the time the wind is from the north we have to land on runway 35 which its  own challenges, flying over a cleared area when it gets hot, the thermals lifts the aircrafts even it climbs even when you kill the throttle and then it fliesover a patch of that wooded area and it sinks so fast  and it could catch you unexpectedly, if you are not anticipating. It also has the challenge of visibility when landing while another aircraft is taking off from the same rwy 35 because of the trees/wooded area, Especially this one, when a low wing was landing while a high wing was taking off at the same time, the low wing ends up landing on the high wing aircraft. LOL 

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=dce797bd-03fa-4e5b-945d-d5bc969afc7b

Then anyone remember this? this one happened when landing the usual rwy 17.

 

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/learn-to-fly/private-pilot/cessna-172-on-short-final-hits-a-car/

See the mound where the aircrafts come over, when the wind is strong, it creates a venturi effect over the mound  and pulls the aircraft down.

I love my home airport 52F Northwest regional. LOL 🙂 I did a freeware for the FSX with these peculiarities and uploaded on AVSIM about 10 years ago.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Manny

[snglecoil 1,829]

4 hours ago, mikegrr said:

This is what happens in XP, but it seems extreme in XP...very pronounced.

The XP 172 is ridiculous in the way it models the effect of flap deployment. Trim the plane out for a 90 knot, hands-off, level cruise. Drop the first 10 degrees of flap in and the thing immediately pitches up so aggressively that it will stall within seconds. It reminds me of demonstrating elevator trim stalls with my students.

MSFS (prior to the flap bug) is much more realistic in its flap behavior...as least on the planes with which I'm familiar in real life.

As far as the debate on landing with partial flaps...an examiner in my area reminded me on my commercial-multi checkride that that unless the POH states otherwise, landing performance data is calculated using full flaps. The list of reasons to land with partial flaps is extremely short (gusty crosswinds), and if I send people to him for checkrides, they better have a very darn good reason for landing with less than full flaps.

[Chock 17,769]

32 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

The list of reasons to land with partial flaps is extremely short (gusty crosswinds)

There's noise abatement too. 😉

[snglecoil 1,829]

3 minutes ago, Chock said:

There's noise abatement too. 😉

Sorry, in a GA prop that doesn't pass the sniff test 😉

[HighBypass 2,339]

Depends upon how much influence the complaining nimby (not in my back yard) has with the local authorities 😉

[Chock 17,769]

3 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Depends upon how much influence the complaining nimby (not in my back yard) has with the local authorities 😉

Yup, also the reason why none of the EGCC SIDs go over Congleton because that's where the posh people live lol

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

11 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Depends upon how much influence the complaining nimby (not in my back yard) has with the local authorities 😉

 

Especially the ones that bought property under a flight path because it was a bargain  (but now want the noise abated as it will increase their property values substantially) .

 

Not everyone has the attitude shown below:

 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[sd_flyer 6,119]

For those who are interested in a most common way of traditional traffic pattern in 172 (in good weather with light winds)

- 80 kts on downwind
- abeam the number numbers,  power 1700-1500 rpm

- carb heat on (if you have one ), 10 degrees of flaps (remember: nose down flaps down),  speed 80-75kts, descent 500fpm

- at 45 degrees to runway turn base. wing level 20 degrees of flap . Don’t get nose to come up keep steady 500fpm, speed 75-70kts

- turn final, runway maid full flaps, speed 70-65kts, 500 fpm 

-  over threshold speed 65-60kts. Round up, flare, cowling covers runway, look to the side-forward (usually on pilot side), touch down with mains

- decelerate: yoke all way aft for aerodynamic breaking, use break only if necessary.

 

I teach my student to precede flaps and always push nose down . Stall horn at touch down is not a stall and it’s ok . If nose rises during flap deployment student is behind airplane control!

Hope it helps someone 🙂

[Chock 17,769]

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

Stall horn at touch down is not a stall and it’s ok

Unless it is heard continuously as you arrive nose first, having spun down from 350 feet off that turn onto finals. 🤣

[sd_flyer 6,119]

1 minute ago, Chock said:

Unless it is heard continuously as you arrive nose first, having spun down from 350 feet off that turn onto finals. 🤣

You can imagine that after 20 years of flying I've seen everything. LOL Stall horn often goes off in turbulence. It just little hole with a switch in 172 or tub in PA28. When my student do first power off stall I can hear stall horn up to 30 seconds LOL

Those lucky who have angle of attack indicator would have a piece of mind whether airplane actually close to high alpha or not. I know many people are not taught falling leaf exercise, but if take 172 stall it,  and keep controls all way aft while correcting bank with rudders constantly one may found that 172 really doesn't stall it just descent with constant stall horn. Instead many people are taught to recover right after "nose fall" which create lingering feel of stall horn LOL

 

[mikegrr 109]

I don't believe that holding the yoke back aids in braking in MFS. I've tried it and it seems to have no effect in the 172 or any other MSFS plane. My pilot friends are very strong about saving their brakes, but not a factor in the sim.

[fppilot 4,445]

If all other influences remain the same (environmental elements, power setting, other control inputs) then drag and lift both increase and the pilot applies pressure to the yoke to compensate.  Results in changes based on associated pilot inputs to control surfaces. The pilot is the key to the results.

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by fppilot

[G-RFRY 1,745]

Try the Kingair 350 it will go nose up and stall if you do not push down hard on the stick.