FSX vs MSFS, Pros and Cons, my opinion.

[kingm56 1,031]

1 minute ago, Cristi_Neagu said:

Wrong. I said:

And by "good", i am referring to the ecosystem built around it, not just the default sim that comes out of the box.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Go on JustFlight's forum in their thread on the Arrow for FS2020 and go through the posts and you will find many instances of the developers talking about compromises they had to make because of the core FS2020 internals. The wing geometry cannot be defined as it is in real life cause that will lead to deeply unrealistic flight behaviour. The engine cannot have the same performance as the real life one, because the way the engine model is made in FS2020 simply does not allow it.

And i'll ask one more time: Quote me where i said that the SDK is not capable of producing any airplane at all.

This is pointless if you’re simply going to move the goal post. I literally quoted your words in my initial response. 

[RXP 2,338]

By the way, please don't take my answer as anything against you in particular, it is not.

We've been in this business for 20 years, and we know a lot of things happening behind the scene too. I understand it is hard to comprehend from what is mostly said or seen, especially during Q&A videos or official presentations, but it is not a Manichean situation.

There is no good or bad, there is no better or worse, there is no good devs and bad devs to me. There is only a new title which is disrupting the simmers world for reasons which are not related to the visuals nor the technology to me. In the end, fighting amongst us in the community is just reinforcing the disruptive reasons in the first place.

Edited May 21, 2021 by RXP
against -> amongst

[kingm56 1,031]

Just now, RXP said:

By the way, please don't take my answer as anything against you in particular, it is not.

We've been in this business for 20 years, and we know a lot of things happening behind the scene too. I understand it is hard to comprehend from what is mostly said or seen, especially during Q&A videos or official presentations, but it is not a Manichean situation. There is no good or bad, there is no better or worse, there is no good devs and bad devs to me. There is only a new title which is disrupting the simmers world for reasons which are not related to the visuals nor the technology to me.

Not at all!!!  I really appreciated your response.  

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

3 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

However, the reality is it’s possible to build complex aircraft via WASM today.  As RR from PMDG stated, “the SDK is no longer a limitation.”

That quote doesn't prove that it's possible to build complex aircraft via WASM. For starters, no one knows what methods PMDG are using to build their addons. Secondly, where is this complex aircraft from PMDG that RSR is referring to? It's not on the market. That quote only shows that at the time PMDG didn't believe any major roadblock stands in their way. That's all.

3 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

This is pointless if you’re simply going to move the goal post.

I have not moved any goal posts, as it is evident from your inability to provide any quotes of mine where i make any of the claims you say i made. As i have stated from the beginning, this is about FS2020 never being as good as FSX was if things going the way they have. You keep claiming i somehow said FS2020 is incapable of any addon of any kind at all, which is a lie.

4 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

I literally quoted your words in my initial response. 

And then you proceeded to imply things i never said.

This is indeed pointless if you're going to put words in my mouth. Have a nice day.

[nirgal76 100]

1 hour ago, kingm56 said:

as it already vastly surpasses it in every aspect. 

Most part of aspect, not all (for the moment, but it will, i hope).
No effects, not replay, not any possibility to drag panels to another monitor, crazy AP sometimes (linked with buggy flight plan with sometimes somes strange path), buggy (dynamic) pause, bad support for forcefeedback, buggy, atc is really not better, AI is not so good (and not open to evolved) and some tohers, i just put example (i don't speak about funny fuel consumption). And some mods enhanced a lot some missing or buggy features.
So actually NO, it is definitively not better on all aspect. Perhaps on all aspect your need.
 

[bean_sprout 1,201]

Long posts are pointless!  Get to the point in 1 or 2 lines and move on.  Sheesh!

Regards

bs

[109Sqn 1,565]

And another sim comparison thread gets derailed by mud-slinging...

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

From what I know, the engine mechanics can all be adjusted for non-premium stuff, Asobo just set a bunch of things incorrectly. Also, they are documented poorly in the SDK so at first it may seem more is missing than really is. There are some issues with airliner and jet performance constraints where some values are ignored, but there are workarounds. This was from a discussion I remember a while back from the WT devs, as well as from a developer discussion. Given what people have done with helicopters, shouldn't be any major limiting issues that stop a workaround.

People have to realize in the FSX days the style of software design was different, it was NON-Agile and you were chastised for bugs and made fun of by your friends. Now it doesn't matter how many bugs you write, it only matters how many features you finish, whether they work properly or not is beside the point.

I'm not saying I completely agree with it, as there is a proper balance between Agile and NON-Agile, but that is just the way it works these days.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[AKStirling 44]

Here's my take on the comparison discussed by the OP. Have developed an obsession which manifests itself as an unstoppable urge to select Just Flight's Arrow, take off, do a circuit, and return to my starting point to land, sit back and relax as MSFS assumes control and fires me and the Arrow into the trees ..... any attempt i might make to minimise the denudation of the virtual woodland, being ignored ........ ground-handling 'par excellence' i'm sure you'd all agree .... FSX with all its glitches CTDs etc couldn't pull off that little foible ........... which has destroyed the immersion factor for me i've lost count of how many times ..... and for which no gazillions of acres of fancy schmancy scenery will ever compensate .....

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

4 minutes ago, bean_sprout said:

Long posts are pointless!  Get to the point in 1 or 2 lines and move on.  Sheesh!

Regards

bs

To paraphrase Treebeard: We post long threads because it's worth taking the time to write them.

2 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

This was from a discussion I remember a while back from the WT devs

Another developer in a most privileged position...

3 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Given what people have done with helicopters, shouldn't be any limiting issues

Well, what they did with helicopters was to completely bypass the FS2020 internals, so...

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Do you develop aircraft?
If not, then I'd probably stop spreading suppositions unless it is your direct experience that is leading you to believe so.
I don't either, but I do dabble in it, and I'm speaking from reading the dev threads. As far as WT in a privileged position, they are now, they weren't before.

However, I will agree only with one point, they DO need to de-privilege and write better documentation. It kinda sux if your an unknown dev when they are feeding the bigger devs direct support, but that's a separate issue.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

3 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Do you develop aircraft?

That's like a chef telling a customer: "Do you have nay Michelin stars? Then how can you possibly know if that chicken is raw?"...

3 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

If not, then I'd probably stop spreading suppositions unless it is your direct experience that is leading you to believe so.

If that is aimed at me, then i would ask you to point out where I made any claim that comes from anything other than what a third party developer has said.

3 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

As far as WT in a privileged position, they are now, they weren't before.

I personally don't know when WT started working with Asobo, but I do know it must have been prior to the official announcement, unless anyone is ready to claim that announcement was as much a surprise for WT as it was for us.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Cristi_Neagu

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

3 minutes ago, Cristi_Neagu said:

That's like a chef telling a customer: "Do you have nay Michelin stars? Then how can you possibly know if that chicken is raw?"...

If that is aimed at me, then i would ask you to point out where I made any claim that comes from anything other than what a third party developer has said.

Nope, it's a technical expertise question, not a generic question about flavor.

It's like asking the driver of a Tesla how the AI automated driving works, and where is the problem in the code.
He may know it crashes, but he doesn't the underlying area of the code that causes it.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[Gazzareth 808]

4 minutes ago, Cristi_Neagu said:

 

Another developer in a most privileged position...

 

... and how did they get there? By producing stuff in the sim that is far superior to what anyone else was producing before they were in in a privileged position.

 

But don't let facts ruin your narrative...

 

G

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

1 minute ago, Alpine Scenery said:

It's not like asking a customer of a chef, that is the silliest comparison.

It's like asking the driver of a Tesla how the AI automated driving works, and where is the problem in the code.
He may know it crashes, but he doesn't the underlying area of the code that causes it.

You quoted someone literally talking about the Arrow crashing into the beautiful scenery because of FS2020, so...

1 minute ago, Gazzareth said:

and how did they get there? By producing stuff in the sim that is far superior to what anyone else was producing before they were in in a privileged position.

1. That doesn't make them any less privileged in their access to the simulator code. Name any other developer that has that level of access.

2. PMS50 did the same with the GNS530/430 and the GTN750. Did PMS50 get to work with Asobo too?

Either way, this has nothing to do with why WT is working so closely with Asobo. This is about the fact that all of the claims that the SDK is extremely capable and amazing come from developers that either have Asobo actively working to deliver the features they need and want into the sim, or from developers that have that capability themselves. I see no one saying "Well, we've been trying for months now to open a channel towards Asobo and to get a marketplace application, and that hasn't happened, but hey, at least the SDK is absolutely amazing and we can do everything we want in it". Sure, that might be because such developers are too busy developing to post stuff like that.