kingm56

I do not accept I was incorrect; it was clear to everyone but you I was referring to FSX to P3D...you're being purposely obtuse and/or intellectually dishonest. Also, it's funny how you accuse others of being factually incorrect while simultaneously ignoring your own errors. As another poster highlighted, and you ignored, you were dead-wrong about FSL charging for P3D V4/5 upgrades. In fact, unlike PMDG, they offered a substantial discount for FSX-to-P3D upgrades. Employing your criteria, I could accuse you of being 'aggressive' towards FSL. Also, for the 5x time now, PMDG has NEVER offered a model update for free. So, I don't understand how it's 'aggressive' to state they're unlikely to do so for the 777. This is your 3rd reply; yet, you failed to state your opinion...do you believe the VC upgrade will be free or included with the 'expansion' pack? If it's the latter, what's the purpose of this exchange other than to provide you with opportunity to play flight sim defense lawyer...again!? As consumers, we should feel free to voice our opinions and concerns to promote positive change.

I am referring to cross platform (eg. FSX (32 bit) vs P3D (64-bit)) utilization, which I believe is commonly understood vernacular within flt sim realm. So, while PMDG did not charge you from going from P3D V3 to V4, they certainly charged us from going to FSX to P3D, which was the crux of my 64-bit statement. If you recall, you paid an aggerated price; in return, PMDG promised to provide future updates to your P3D product. To their credit, they kept thier word (as they always do); however, to suggest it was 'free' is not entirely true. You paid for the upgrade in your initial price; it's similar to car dealers who provide 'free' oil changes for x years. They're not free, they're covered via doc fees or other costs. Regardless, if you go back and read my post you noticed I said "new models." These were not new models; you're VC has remained untouched across all platforms; to obtain new 777 types(eg. ER), you have to pay $77. Again, for the 4x, PMDG has never provided a new and/or upgraded model (e.g. aircraft type or vc) for free...never. Again, I will make a gentlemen's bet the upgraded 777 VC will only be included for expansion owners, or be a separate purchase.

Updating the model to take advantage of PBR is vastly different than reconstructing the VC; the latter is far more time consuming than the former. Also, the line you quoted is exactly what I was referring to regarding PMDG marketing prowess.... "PMDG just released a very substantial free upgrade for a product that I bought back in February 2015. You’re also very wrong with regards to the 64-bit issue - “ 64-bit 777 = nope“. It’s actually “64-bit 777 = yep”, as they issued a free 64-bit update for my product after P3D v4 was released in 2017." Again, updating and/or recompiling software is vastly different than providing a new visual model for free. They have yet to provide a visual model (not PBR) for free..ever! I bet you the new PMDG 777 VC will require the $77 expansion pack and/or be a separate purchase. Care to place a wager on this notion, Oz? I own every PMDG aircraft available and acknowledge they produce amazing aircraft; in fact, the PMDG 777 is one of my top 2 favorite aircraft ever produced (LDS 767 is my #1). Regardless, I'm educated enough in terms of business and software development to identify expert marketing, which PMDG excels at; again, your quote proves this. Overall, I dislike the impact they've had on the aggregate market, which I highlighted in this thread. I do appreciate the upgrade; however, this is in-line with almost every other aircraft developer in the space. To that point, I can't think of a single major developer that charged for a V4 to V5 upgrade; from a public relations perspective, there was no way PMDG could charge for this upgrade after charging for the 64-bit upgrade. So, we got a full-court press that portrayed this update to be bigger than it was; again, most of the work was required to prepare the aircraft for MSFS port. It's really simple, Oz...

Gotcha, sir! I think we still differ in that you believe the P3D 777 update will be free. I do not, at a minimum, it will be part of the $77 200ER expansion package (ala EFB)...I doubt it will be included in the existing 777 lineup

No it does not; it only says they're anxious to show us the full upgraded cockpit. It does not say it will be a free upgrade. Why do you believe it will be? If they provided a free VC upgrade, what would compel consumers to buy a new 777? This is really very simple. Also, I'm having a difficult time understanding you; in this post you implicitly imply the upgraded VC will be free. How else can you irrupted: "keep making the claim the VC rebuild will have a fee and is for a new MSFS version of the aircraft while the posts I've linked show the opposite." Yet, now you're saying it won't be?

Good discussion, Threegreen! I think I understand your point, sir; however, PBR upgrades are slightly different than a full model update. I was well aware of the former; it's MSFS "full cockpit overhaul" (first link) that I was referring too. That update will certainly cost consumers more money; again, I suspect a similar paradigm to the 737 NGXu. I appreciate everything you said, my friend; however, it seems like you're echoing PDMGs rationale for the price increases, which do not necessarily mean they're accurate :). Still, I very much enjoyed the exchange and thank you for taking the time to post the links!

I don't know how to respond to such a ridiculous statement; I'll endeavor to try though. First, it was a genuine question; I was curious if PMDG has altered thier strategy. The response you quoted was directly refuting a statement explicitly implying a model update would be free. How is suggesting/assuming it would free any different than suggesting the opposite? How come you failed to take offense to the former? How do I know it won't be free? How about 20+ years of strategy to make an informed opinion? Pray tel, when has PMDG released a new visual model for free? 737 NGXu = nope 747 QoS III = nope 747-800 = nope 64-bit 737 = nope 64-bit 747 = nope 64-bit 777 = nope 777 ER expansion = nope It seems pretty logical to SUSPECT [the literal word I used...perhaps you're not a native English speaker] a new visual model will cost, doesn't it?

The visual model will be upgraded as part to the MSFS port; it certainly won't be free. I suspect it will mimic thier 737 NGXu pricing strategy, which costs a $100 with a $50 upgrade path when released for MSFS. If I'm wrong, I'd appreciate a link. Concerning cost, I was not exclusively referring to the 777; that aircraft cost $200+ fully upgraded; the 747 is near $300 with all it's components. Again, this represents a substantial shift in costs, which far exceeds inflation cost, as it applies to software. Your notion concerning the complexity of the aircraft is only compelling if you view it in a vacuum. I agree todays planes are far more complicated; however, so are the IDE and SDK, which negates the argument. To illustrate this notion, a AAA game today cost as much as it did a decade ago; consider MSFS...the base cost is the same today as when FSX was released 15 years ago ($59.99). Surely we can agree the former is far more complex than the latter. There is no defense for a 200 to 300% price escalation; the fact you're attempting to do so highlights PMDG's marking prowess...I congratulate them for thier business acumen.

They're not working for free; they updated the model to prepare for it's eventual port to MSFS. In business, it's referred to as a 'sunk cost'; in short, it needed to be done to sell the 777 on another platform, which they most assuredly will profit from. Moreover, there are important reasons why they chose not to update visuals and add other features like rainmaker. It's essential to provide an impetus for consumers to buy the 'new' 777 when it's released. The attitude here helps explain why add-on aircraft have increased >300% over the last decade. In 2009, PMDG sold thier MD-11 for $59.99; today, they sell thier add-ons for $300+. The rest of the market quickly followed, which is why Capt Sim can sell thier products for $134+ or a mid-grade Sky-Sim MD-11 cost $60.00. Interesting enough, the utilities and scenery markets remained relatively stable, keeping pace with expected inflation. You have to congratulate PMDG on thier ability to increase cost by 300%, while simultaneously having customers defend thier price points; it's example of expert marketing by RSR.

You we’re bored with P3D too, which is why you moved to MSFS in the first place. If you were content with P3D, you would have stayed with that platform. To date, no platform has really given us a reason to fly. I’m hoping GFO fills that gap.

So what!? You're statement is only relevant if you're forced to buy these 'thrown together junk add-ons.' Also, are you new to flight simming? These types of add-ons have produced for the last 3 decades. FS9, FSX and P3D had the F-Lite, CLS, Virtucol, Abacus. etc models; yet, it no impact on the PMDG, FSL and Majestic market. The auto industry pumps out millions of cheap cars each year, but the BMZ, Mercedes and Audi of the world continue to survive. One has no relevance to the other as thier competing in different markets...

Your notion is very misguided. If anything, the freeware market pushes developers to improve thier offerings. Plus, it expands to the market by making products previously inaccessible to those without the resources to buy them. Consider the FBW A320, a person who can't afford the FSL A320 may gain interest in the hoppy by flying the former (freeware); consequently, they may become customers of the latter in the future. A robust freeware community is essential to the eco system!

How can you possibly blame the manufacture when it clearly states said product is NOT support in P3D V5? The product description clearly states: "The ultimate simulation of the a Magnificent Douglas Classic, the DC-6 Cloudmaster is now available in Prepar3D v3 & v4!" Their forum also explicitly states its not ready for V5.

Does the program come with templates for the PMDG/Logitech panels?

Simmarket is simply the broker; it's up to the distributor/owner to upload/update THIER software...you're looking for 'justice' in the wrong place. I would highly encourage anyone to purchase thier software from Simmarket; unlike other brokers, they keep all your purchases and licenses for the life.