JF store Pages now up for Real Taxiways addon (coming soon)

[kerosene31 349]

I imagine there's a lot of paved airports that are super small and simple, basically with one or two taxiways.  There's probably no point in doing anything to those. 

Anyway, nobody is defending the product, but people are certainly attacking others over it.  I personally need a lot more information about this before I'd even consider buying.  Given the price point, I may just wait for a sale, or not buy at all.  I need a lot more information before I even think about making a decision, and that will come once the product is released. 

Ultimately though, what I choose to do with my hard earned money is my decision.  Implications that I do not have the capacity to make those decisions is downright insulting. 

 

[Tuskin38 6,565]

3 minutes ago, Sigwolf said:

so you left out a large part of what they are claiming to modify

Whoops.

[quantumpion 39]

1 hour ago, Sigwolf said:

You are so vigorous in your defense of this product that it almost seems you have a vested interest, yet you don't even bother to do a quick search to verify your assertions?  None of those are heliports, seaports, or grass strips.  There are over 5000 airports in the US with *paved runways*, more than 4000 of those are over 3000' in length.  This pricey add-on will apparently cover less that 20% of them.

https://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/airports_with_paved_runways.html

It was a genuine question, I don't know of a source to determine the answer. Your link is not a list of airports and doesn't have any references, I don't know what that means.

The best I could come up with by internet searching for a bit was this link: https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/ga_study/ which includes a spreadsheet. The Appendix B-2 lists 2457 total GA airports which have been classified, of which 536 are listed as public and category Regional or National. The definitions for Local and Basic seem to indicate they are very small airports that might not have signage or taxiways, although I could be wrong about that. The Just Flight addon for Non-towered airports says it includes 406 airports. So that is 75% of those in that category. If you have a better source of airport listings by category, by all means share.

[kiki 89]

3 hours ago, 737_800 said:

You mean a thumb-down, right?

This time and for that price, yes.

[Espana Pete 357]

38 minutes ago, kiki said:

This time and for that price, yes.

If this project is a failure, I feel sorry for the Rolls Royce car dealerships who have families to feed and will be hurt in their pockets when the app developers cancel their ordered fleet of new Rolls Royces.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

17 hours ago, RobJC said:

I would honestly buy Aivlasoft EFB before getting this.

I use Foreflight so I see the correct names, but if there is a choice to also see the correct names out the window I'll take it.  This product also removes signs and taxiway lights from incorrect positions, so I'll take it.

Maybe the core product will fix this problem, but until that happens this product can add +1 to immersion just like many addons.  You don't have to buy it so what is the problem?

[espent 1,397]

According to the 2011-2015 National Plan of Integrated Airport Systems (NPIAS), there are over 19,700 airports in the United States. 5,170 of these airports are open to the general public and 503 of them serve commercial flights.
 

 

If all those 503 are covered it will at least fill my needs. You might have other needs of course. 

[Sigwolf 222]

2 hours ago, quantumpion said:

It was a genuine question, I don't know of a source to determine the answer. Your link is not a list of airports and doesn't have any references, I don't know what that means.

The best I could come up with by internet searching for a bit was this link: https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/ga_study/ which includes a spreadsheet. The Appendix B-2 lists 2457 total GA airports which have been classified, of which 536 are listed as public and category Regional or National. The definitions for Local and Basic seem to indicate they are very small airports that might not have signage or taxiways, although I could be wrong about that. The Just Flight addon for Non-towered airports says it includes 406 airports. So that is 75% of those in that category. If you have a better source of airport listings by category, by all means share.

You're making this much harder than it needs to be.  The numbers are out there.  When you claimed that 946 airports covered all airports in the US someone pointed out that there are more than 5000.  You tried to downplay that by saying that probably includes heliports and grass strips, and I showed that that was not the case.  Now, you try to bring numbers in from an NPIAS study that only exists as part of the FAA Modernization plan which is mainly concerned with the economic impact of the airspace system and is intended to be used to determine future federal funding.  It's scope was stated upfront to include "all commercial service airports, all reliever airports, and selected public-owned general aviation airports".  It's purpose is not a complete overview of every airport in the US.  It has a specific purpose that is not really relevant to this discussion.

You seem to have it in your head that those must be all back-country, unimportant strips, despite the fact that over 4000 of them have runway lengths over 3000'.  That much runway eliminates most 'mom & pop" backyard strips.  Nearly 2000 of those have runways over 5000'.  Airports with runways of that length are intended to at least handle GA jet and turboprop operations.

Those 5054 paved runway airports can also be broken down into the categories you seem to desire simply by using other easy to verify numbers.  There are 37 Class B airports (which they have puzzlingly decided not to cover, even with a separate product).  There are just over 500 controlled fields (which would cover all the Class C/D airports+).  There are just over 300 military airbases (of which around 20 allow civil aviation use).  Adding those together would account for around 850 of the 5054 paved airports listed in the CIA World Factbook.

Assuming all of those listed in the paragraph above have a runway over 5000' in length (which seems pretty likely), that still leaves over 3000 uncontrolled airports with a paved runway greater than 3000', and close to 1200 uncontrolled airports with runways greater than 5000'.  Those are not insignificant numbers.

To put it in perspective relative to your earlier inquiry about the number including grass strips, seaplanes, etc. If you want to include those, the AOPA puts the total number of uncontrolled airports in the US of any type at close to 20,000!  https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/pilot-resources/asi/safety-advisors/sa08.pdf?la=en  There are a lot more airports than you seem to think. 😉

[Sigwolf 222]

20 minutes ago, espent said:

If all those 503 are covered it will at least fill my needs. You might have other needs of course. 

Well... at least 37 of them are not (Class B airports).  As for the rest, we'll have to wait and see... 😜

[SmokeDiddy 262]

At some point, I would think MSOBO will tidy up these types of things.  But the price point is too high to justify.  my 2 cents

[quantumpion 39]

Wow OK I give up Sigwolf. You win the internet.  😄

I officially revise my original statement of "You are getting 100% real and accurate airport signage and taxiways for every airport in NA for the price of 2-3 custom airports" to "You are getting 100% real and accurate airport signage and taxiways for *the vast majority of towered airports and over 400 GA airports which have taxiways and signage* for the price of 2-3 custom airports." Satisfied?

Does that change the context of my statement? No. We get it, you hate this addon, think it is a total rip-off, and think its existence is a travesty. Point made.

[Sigwolf 222]

9 minutes ago, quantumpion said:

Wow OK I give up Sigwolf. You win the internet.  😄

I officially revise my original statement of "You are getting 100% real and accurate airport signage and taxiways for every airport in NA for the price of 2-3 custom airports" to "You are getting 100% real and accurate airport signage and taxiways for *the vast majority of towered airports and over 400 GA airports which have taxiways and signage* for the price of 2-3 custom airports." Satisfied?

Does that change the context of my statement? No. We get it, you hate this addon, think it is a total rip-off, and think its existence is a travesty. Point made.

Asks for numbers... acts offended when provided numbers don't support original viewpoint... makes assumptions about the provider of those numbers.  🤣

You really don't need to take everything about this still-unreleased product so personally.

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

My nearest Licensed Airfield - that I have flown out of recently - has had three major changes to its Taxiway designations in the last 2 years. AIRAC (let alone Navigraph) is not going to keep up with that. NOTAMs will, of course - and if in any doubt - those should be your one and only consultation.

An entire distributor road has been moved to what was an old Taxiway, etc, etc. It's hard enough to remember and report to the ATCO real world - forget the sim.

It's the way of all things here in the UK - we're squeezing every little bit of space out of airfields to build government targets of "x" amount of new homes/ Industrial Estates, etc, etc. Some businesses setting up are good - aviation and technology based - most, I'm afraid are simply land grabs by property portfolio holding companies.

It's the way it is and Grant Shapps has failed in his mission.

But, Taxiway designation be warned. Monday it could have been called Taxiway 'Alpha' - now, by Friday it's called "Commerce Road" and it leads to an ASDA and a huge car park - not the Holding Point you were expecting.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Will Fly For Cheese

[Matchstick 1,887]

58 minutes ago, Will Fly For Cheese said:

My nearest Licensed Airfield - that I have flown out of recently - has had three major changes to its Taxiway designations in the last 2 years. AIRAC (let alone Navigraph) is not going to keep up with that. NOTAMs will, of course - and if in any doubt - those should be your one and only consultation.

An entire distributor road has been moved to what was an old Taxiway, etc, etc. It's hard enough to remember and report to the ATCO real world - forget the sim.

It's the way of all things here in the UK - we're squeezing every little bit of space out of airfields to build government targets of "x" amount of new homes/ Industrial Estates, etc, etc. Some businesses setting up are good - aviation and technology based - most, I'm afraid are simply land grabs by property portfolio holding companies.

It's the way it is and Grant Shapps has failed in his mission.

But, Taxiway designation be warned. Monday it could have been called Taxiway 'Alpha' - now, by Friday it's called "Commerce Road" and it leads to an ASDA and a huge car park - not the Holding Point you were expecting.

But with a much better selection of wines and spirits than the duty-free kiosk.

[WestAir 2,522]

Not sure if the devs frequent these boards for customer thoughts, but the moment they do Class B airports at $15 I'm in.