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Is it time to go Mac?

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Seems FSX has been, on the whole, a pretty big disappointment for many buyers. Now that PC gaming is deteriorating in large part (compared to even 5 years ago) in favor of game consoles, perhaps it's time to break away from Microsoft and venture into something different, like Mac OS. Don't know a whole lot of Mac users who complain about their OS, and I do know a few.I have so loved having a one-stop computing/gaming interface, that I have vehemently resisted the idea of game consoles. Well, now as FSX comes along, and Vista, with its scary DRM issues and who knows what else, the reason for trying to remain dedicated to a one-station solution for my entertainment and "work" needs, seems way less compelling. I mean take FS out of the mix, and all of the sudden, why bother with MS at all? Well, FS9 doesn't run on a Mac I guess. I guess the best soln for now is to keep a fully loaded, fully up-to-date install of XP (or in my case, Win2K Pro) at the ready on a new HDD, so that it can be used as long as hardware can support it. At some point XP/Win2K will no longer be supported, but as long as your hardware will run the old code, you are good to go with it.I can see a time though when it's Mac OS/Linux for the basics, and a game console for games. It could be MS's drive to write for XBOX more than PC games will in part be a trigger to get people like me looking at a different computing platform. It is certainly much more the case today than it was 5 years ago, for me.Noel

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I wholeheartedly agree. Until 6 months ago, I'd never thought to consider an alternative platform to Microsoft (Linux, Mac), now I'm seriously thinking about it.Marco

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>>I mean take FS out of the mix, and all of the sudden, why bother with MS at all? Well, FS9 doesn't run on a Mac I guess. Actually, you don't HAVE to take FS out of the mix when you go to Mac. Current intel Macs run WinXP and hence both FS9 and FSX just fine.Be aware though - the imacs are great machines but not very expandable. The tower macs are fully expandable, and have bleeding edge hardware (and a bleeding edge price).I have two macs, and a windows box. The windows box is only for flight sims (my macs are older, non-intel ones). My next computer purchase will be a tower mac - best of both world!

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>Seems FSX has been, on the whole, a pretty big disappointment>for many buyers. Now that PC gaming is deteriorating in large>part (compared to even 5 years ago) in favor of game consoles,>perhaps it's time to break away from Microsoft and venture>into something different, like Mac OS. Don't know a whole lot>of Mac users who complain about their OS, and I do know a>few.>>I have so loved having a one-stop computing/gaming interface,>that I have vehemently resisted the idea of game consoles. >Well, now as FSX comes along, and Vista, with its scary DRM>issues and who knows what else, the reason for trying to>remain dedicated to a one-station solution for my>entertainment and "work" needs, seems way less compelling. I>mean take FS out of the mix, and all of the sudden, why bother>with MS at all? Well, FS9 doesn't run on a Mac I guess. >>I guess the best soln for now is to keep a fully loaded, fully>up-to-date install of XP (or in my case, Win2K Pro) at the>ready on a new HDD, so that it can be used as long as hardware>can support it. At some point XP/Win2K will no longer be>supported, but as long as your hardware will run the old code,>you are good to go with it.>>I can see a time though when it's Mac OS/Linux for the basics,>and a game console for games. It could be MS's drive to write>for XBOX more than PC games will in part be a trigger to get>people like me looking at a different computing platform. It>is certainly much more the case today than it was 5 years ago,>for me.>>NoelIf Mac hardware prices weren't so outrageous I would consider itespecially with the dual boot option.It seems to me that if Steve Jobs now has the Mac OS running on Intelhe could do the same with AMD. I often wondered why Apple won't codetheir OS to run on any hardware and give MS a run for their money.Maybe it's because MS sunk $ 150,000,000 into Apple back in '97.Craig ASUS A8N- nForce SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCIe MOBOAMD ATHLON64 3500+ CPU w/ HT TechLG GWA-4161 DVD/CDSeagate ST3160811AS 160GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQSeagate ST3160811AS 250GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQEVGA 7950 GT KO PCIe 512mb nvodngov19147-[Guru3D.com] drivers SB Audigy 22G Corsair PC 3200 400MHZ Dual Channel DDR Super Alien 500W P/STrack IR3 w/vectorCH Yolk & RuddersFS Genesis Terrain MeshActive SkyRC4

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I've never cared much for anti microsoft sentiment. MS software has always been great for me. Until now.Microsoft just don't seem to be able to do any thing right anymore. FSX is a disaster, Vista is loaded with bloatware & spyware, offering only minimal production benefitsIf the MAC had a decent Flight Sim, I'd be gone in a shot.So, who knows the scoop on X-plane 9?Until then....enjoy..http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/ge...ity_480x376.mov

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Cool. I think I will definitely look into this in great detail. Had MS/ACES done a proper job with FSX I would never have even considered this option, but now with this good news, I think it's time!OK, now . . .Just how "fine" does FS9 run on an Intel Mac?

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>FSX is a disaster, >>>So, who knows the scoope on X-plane 9?>I still prefer FSX far and above X-Plane 8.50+, and I don't believe that X-Plane 9 will be some great leap forward.But then I don't believe that FSX is a disaster either. L.Adamson ---- FSX,FS9,X-Plane 8.50 w/global scenery

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The hardware is indeed nice. These Mac Pro's with 2 x Core 2 Xeon @ 3GHz are insanely fast and they can run both Mac OS X and XP (via bootcamp). They should run FS9 and FSX nicely, although I did not yet try it.Together with one of Apples widescreen cinema displays, its an impressive piece of hardware, but the price tag is impressive too :)

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Alex, being a Mac newb (and looking ahead and away from Windows OS) can you give an idea of the cost of your Mac?Thanks,

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I hope your sadly mistaken about PC gaming coming to an end, and consoles becoming the only gaming platform available. If this were to happen, you would not have any "Simulation" games to play at all. Console games simply are not capable of running such huge realistic simulations such as Flight Simualtor, Silent Hunter III, Operation Flashpoint, IL2 series, Falcon 4, ect......). If all we had were consoles, all we would get would be arcade style games that none of us would be interested in playing. Lets face it, console games are dumbed down games that are more arcadish than realistic. Have you ever seen a realistic PC game get transported to a console and maintain the same level of realism as on the PC. Never!!!!!!!As far as Microsoft is concerned, they are becoming there own worst enemy. They are completely ignoring which direction the overall industry is going in. I guess they think they got it all figured out, and they assume that everyone will come along with them. Instead, they create a huge industry market that is out to get them, and alienate their best friends in the process, their customers. Microsoft does not know how to handle competition because they grew up without any competition.Everything they touch anymore turns to disaster. Most everybody hates them, and that includes the people who still buys their products. Does this matter even though they still buy their products. You bet it does. Look how many people are starting to make the swith over to Macs in the past few years. I just wish the gaming industry would wake up and smell the coffee and start developing more games for the MAC. If this were to happen, most all hard-core gamers and PC'ers would make the jump over to MAC.I think Microsoft is screaming down the highway that IBM went down back in the 1980's. They have created a world that despises them, and they continue to do the things that made that world despise them with more gusto each and every time. How stupid!!!!!!!!!!

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>I've never cared much for anti microsoft sentiment. MS>software has always been great for me. Until now.>>Microsoft just don't seem to be able to do any thing right>anymore. >FSX is a disaster, Vista is loaded with bloatware & spyware,>offering only minimal production benefits>>If the MAC had a decent Flight Sim, I'd be gone in a shot.>>So, who knows the scoop on X-plane 9?>>Until then....enjoy..>http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/ge...ity_480x376.mov>I'm writing this post on one of my two "beloved" Macs (I'll post pics of them if you don't believe me) and I still say you (And a few other people in this thread) are full of crap here.Anyway, exaggerated FUD regarding whatever is not good for anything useful, and usually it doesn't really fool anyone either.

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I hope Mac continues doing well just because Microsoft needs competition (or someone to steal ideas from :-) )However, for Mac to succeed and attract more users, they're going to need develop more software for it as has been mentioned, and secondly they're going to have to drop the 'chip on their shoulder' they have toward Microsoft.It seems every time I go into a Mac Store, the salesperson has to start putting down Microsoft... Mac's are nice computers, granted, but the general Macintosh 'culture' so to speak is not appealing; it almost has a certain bitterness to it, which doesn't help the Macintosh cause one bit.-Bryan

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I also sometines wonder if Indian big heads, who are the best, are not going to come up with a bomb, There's room for more than 2, really.

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>I hope your sadly mistaken about PC gaming coming to an end,>and consoles becoming the only gaming platform available. If>this were to happen, you would not have any "Simulation" games>to play at all. Console games simply are not capable of>running such huge realistic simulations such as Flight>Simualtor, Silent Hunter III, Operation Flashpoint, IL2>series, Falcon 4, ect......). If all we had were consoles,>all we would get would be arcade style games that none of us>would be interested in playing. Lets face it, console games>are dumbed down games that are more arcadish than realistic. >Have you ever seen a realistic PC game get transported to a>console and maintain the same level of realism as on the PC. >Never!!!!!!!Well, as I say I have vehemently resisted having to use a console, but really, look how few titles now come out for PC compared to a few years ago. BestBuy and others have shrunk down what used to be isles of PC games now to just a single small area. It's been dwindling steadily for years. To me, the only thing that could challenge this would be robust recommittment to developing games on the PC, and with DRM and other bloat it seems unrealistic to think the industry will go back in the that direction since lots of progress has been made in the console arena. Now what I always wanted was a slip-in, full height, game console that would allow me to use my PC for everything, INCLUDING console games. Seems like a natural for Microsoft to have developed: a full fledged XBOX 360 in a slip-in box like your CD drive. They could have developed, with Vista or XP Media this capability to utilize your HDDs, screen, and maybe controllers to give users access to XBOX 360 thru their PC taking full advantage of their nice LCD PC display and already existing HDD's. If MS had done this, I for one would have already bought my XBOX 360 slip-in unit. Now how cool is that?Apple, are you listening? Apple should make an interface with PS3 or Wii, or PS4 or whatever, and make a device that simply connects to Apple so that those nice Cinema Displays can be used.

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I think Steve Jobs will be very happy to sell another Mac.Bill Gates on the other hand has 90+% of the market and normal people are not scared of Microsoft and what it may or may not know about us. I doubt they care as long as my software is legal.The Macs look very nice and do their basic stuff very well. And why not after all there isn't much written for them and there are no "special" computers like most of ours that need to function with it. All Macs are vanilla. There is no chocolate, no strawberry and no Cherries Garcia. My world tends toward the latter so I will stay away from the Oldsmobile of computers and continue to go along this path of the PC.

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If you are looking to move to a computer hardware structure and an OS with the worst 'big brother' control of what you do, track everything you do.Then by all means buy a MAC.They are great, but Vista's 'spyware and big brother' is still 10 years behind Apple and the MAC.BTW - they are a #### to keep free of viruses.

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If I could run a solid flight sim *without* Windows, I would do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I can't.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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>Alex, being a Mac newb (and looking ahead and away from>Windows OS) can you give an idea of the cost of your Mac?Well, I don't have one at home. We have a few at the office though and I've been playing around with one of them recently.As for the price: Just looked @ apple store and a configuration with:* 2 x 3GHz Core 2 Xeon* 4 gig RAM* ATI 1900 XT (yes, not the fastest video card - but the fastest they offer right now, although any modern PCIe card can be used in a Mac Pro, so one could order the system with the cheapest video card they offer and then just replace it)* 250 gig SATA* usual stuff (keyboard, mouse, dvd drive etc.)* 23 inch cinema display (1920 x 1200 resolution)sells for about 5800 euros (that's about $7500).I'am sure, prices in the US are significantly lower though.

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Reggie,How about posting a few links to verified and unbiased information confirming your accusations ?BTW, I have a PC at home for FS9 and FSX but have been using Macs professionally for the last 12 years so you'd better come up with something else than another urban legend.Jean-PaulAsus P5W DH Deluxe - Core 2 Duo E6600@3Ghz - Leadtek 7950 GT TDH 512 - 4 x 1GB Kingmax DDR2 667 CL5 RAM - 2 x 250GB Hitachi T7K250 SATA2 AHCI - Creative Audigy 2 Value - Antec Sonata 2 Case - 450W Antec SmartPower 2.0 PSU - Samsung SyncMaster 204B 20" - Windows XP Pro SP2 - TrackIR 4 Pro

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First:Contray to some peoples beleifs, there are actually many of us who are quite happy with FSX on XP/Vista and are looking forward to MS SP1 and DX 10 update. For those who have given up on FSX your more than welcome to return to to FS9 and its forum.Second:Shouldn't this post be in the Hardware forum?Regards,Mark

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>I hope your sadly mistaken about PC gaming coming to an end,>and consoles becoming the only gaming platform available. If>this were to happen, you would not have any "Simulation" games>to play at all. Console games simply are not capable of>running such huge realistic simulations such as Flight>Simualtor, Silent Hunter III, Operation Flashpoint, IL2>series, Falcon 4, ect......). If all we had were consoles,>all we would get would be arcade style games that none of us>would be interested in playing. Lets face it, console games>are dumbed down games that are more arcadish than realistic. >Have you ever seen a realistic PC game get transported to a>console and maintain the same level of realism as on the PC. >Never!!!!!!!>>As far as Microsoft is concerned, they are becoming there own>worst enemy. They are completely ignoring which direction the>overall industry is going in. I guess they think they got it>all figured out, and they assume that everyone will come along>with them. Instead, they create a huge industry market that>is out to get them, and alienate their best friends in the>process, their customers. Microsoft does not know how to>handle competition because they grew up without any>competition.>>Everything they touch anymore turns to disaster. Most>everybody hates them, and that includes the people who still>buys their products. Does this matter even though they still>buy their products. You bet it does. Look how many people>are starting to make the swith over to Macs in the past few>years. I just wish the gaming industry would wake up and>smell the coffee and start developing more games for the MAC. >If this were to happen, most all hard-core gamers and PC'ers>would make the jump over to MAC.>>I think Microsoft is screaming down the highway that IBM went>down back in the 1980's. They have created a world that>despises them, and they continue to do the things that made>that world despise them with more gusto each and every time. >How stupid!!!!!!!!!! A few observations/comments:- If Microsoft is so "despised" then why are they the 6th most admired company overall and the 2nd most admired company in the computer industry, ahead of Apple? Why does Bill Gates beat out Jobs as the most admired CEO (of course Ballmer is actually CEO and Gates is Chairman of the Board).http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/glo...pshots/879.htmlhttp://www.ccnmatthews.com/news/releases/s...se&showText=all- If the Mac and Mac OS is so great, why won't Apple license it? Why can't I go buy a copy of Mac OS and use it with my own hardware? Maybe it runs well only on a very small subset of carefully controlled hardware, but Windows must be compatible with many, many combinations of hardware and drivers. That's much tougher to do, but provides much more in terms of "open-ness". Mac is a closed and proprietary product. http://www.applematters.com/index.php/sect...e-a-good-thing/- Why does Windows in many tests run better than OS X on Mac's own hardware? - If the Mac OS is so superior and everyone hates Microsoft, why isn't Apple's market share increasing and people switching to Macs in droves? Apple has dumped enough money into advertising and FUD, but if it wasn't for the iPod, they would not be significantly ahead of where they were 5 years ago. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/mac-os-mark...-371-201914.phphttp://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34491- If MSFT is so "despised", "alienated," and "completely ignoring which direction the overall industry is going," why is its stock at 52 week highs?

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>....and normal people are not scared of Microsoft and what it may or may not know about us. I doubt they care as long as my software is>legal.No....normal, INTELLIGENT, independent thinking people are not the slightest bit "scared" of Microsoft. They're just FED UP with their disdain and disrespect for their customers.

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>I wholeheartedly agree. Until 6 months ago, I'd never thought>to consider an alternative platform to Microsoft (Linux, Mac),>now I'm seriously thinking about it.>>>Marco>>>My situation exactly. I'm going to make my second recent trip to my Apple store this afternoon - thinking about coming home with a MAC mini.

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I find it funny that the only company that ranked higher in your "money.cnn.com" ranking than Microsoft is IBM. Ha!!!!Ha!!!!Ha!!!! I thought Microsoft was the company that ended IBM.Anyway, that should say something about your list. Don't always assume a company is financially successful only because how well it is being managed. This is not always the case. Microsoft broke all kinds of ground by bringing personal computers to the mainstream with Windows95. As a result, they fell into what is called a "Natural Monopoly". (1) Software developers wanted to develop software for a single operating system, (2) Microsoft was the first widely purchased single operating system for the mainstream of consumers, and (3) now everyone else wants to have an operating system that most software developers create software for. Here is Microsoft's "natural monopoly". We all go out and buy the new MS OS not because it is Microsoft's new Operating System, but because we want to run other software on our computers that require Microsoft's Operating System (like FSX). This is why Microsoft is financially successful, and this is why they rank high in your rankings. You can see how difficult it would be to try to break this mold. There would always be that one little piece of software that you love to use that requires Microsoft's OS to run that would keep you buying it. Many people mistake the company for being a well ran company. Actually, I don't think we can say they are a well ran company. Lets face it, many of us are dreading changing over to Vista because of all of its built in hasstles. More and more people are becoming computer savvy and starting to rebel about how intrusive Microsoft's OS is, and this is during an era where everybody is concerned about personal privacy. I think Microsoft is digging their own grave.Hey, I agree with you that Microsoft has brought a lot of good things to personal computers. I am not hoping they fall apart either. I would just love for their to be a little bit of competition out there so we, the consumers, get alot better products in the end. Right now, it is like we are buying these really nice flashy cars, but the car maker decided not to put a gas peddle in the car. We will get that in the first patch.

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>- If the Mac OS is so superior and everyone hates Microsoft,>why isn't Apple's market share increasing and people switching>to Macs in droves? It takes time to change momentum. The 90% market share is tough mo to overcome. Me, as a few others who have posted comment on this thread, are now just beginning to become open to the possibility of other PC platforms. That's a shift. I find I am often right in sync with others and it wouldn't surprise me to find there are many more thinking as I am now. PC games was the reason I went with MS: FS, and Links Golf. The situation has changed bigtime now. No longer is PC gaming driving PC development. And when you take gaming out of the picture, then things like audio/video development, web browsing, email, office software start becoming more important issues. We'll see on Vista. I am not buying new hardware until I've seen if Vista/FSX/DX10 all turn out to be a good thing, I mean a REAL good thing vs what I have now. So far, no one can for sure say if or when this will be. Fortunately my 3 y/o hardware is running everything ok so I hope it lasts until it's more obvious which way to go. I bypassed XP entirely as it added very little to Win2K Pro, and I was certain I would be ready for Vista etc. Well, not as sure today.Running legacy MS software on a MAC pro may end up being the ulimate solution. $4,500 tho is a bit steep for this!

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