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Remove trees at ends of runways?

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I've encountered several great airports (like KORS Orcas Island, WA) that have annoying trees right at the end of the runway. Is there an easy way to remove them in FSX?Also - I've noticed several areas where the ocean "climbs" a landmass uphill - any easily downloadable fix for this?Much thanks,Steve

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Trees - boy don't we all wish their was an easy way to simulate the zones of low trees off the end of runways. It gets worse in FSX with 1000% increase in the number of trees - if you computer can handle so many polygons.You need Exclude Builder available in the library. Trees are autogen objects which may be excluded by an Exclude All Objects rectangle of XML code. And compiled with the FS2004 BGL Comp SDK bglcomp.exe program.ExcludeBuilder - http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=...hor=&CatID=rootSDK - http://download.microsoft.com/download/b/9...comp2_setup.exe Coastlines - a much bigger, more difficult issue. Base problem is the level of detail in the mesh, landclass and waterclass - i.e. the smallest square which FS recognizes as being able to be different from the one next to it.The sloping effect is the transition between one terrain level and the next. Vertical cliffs are actually harder to do in FS. The world is designed at it's basic level to smooth the transitions between different elevations. Which produces the effect of water sloping up to meet land, and land sloping down to meet water.The way to resolve it is by individual level work on every coastline in the world.Microsoft gives flight simmers to apply local corrections to the base data. But it is extremely labor intensive. There are several good fixes for different areas, some of the best being freeware.Search the library for the area you are looking to update. I also use this reference extensively for free scenery - http://walhalla.mine.nu/fs2004.php

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Will give it a try - thanks for your help.Steve

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>I've encountered several great airports (like KORS Orcas>Island, WA) that have annoying trees right at the end of the>runway. Is there an easy way to remove them in FSX?>>Also - I've noticed several areas where the ocean "climbs" a>landmass uphill - any easily downloadable fix for this?>>Much thanks,>>Steve Ask some of the real pilots out there. Believe it or not there are really runways out there in the real world with trees at the end of the runways. I believe that's why in in Aircraft Operating Handbook or Manual that there are normally distances to clear a 50' obstacle. I guess in the real world you could chop them down but not before dealing with the neighbors and the EPA. Much easier in FS I guess. As far as the ocean problem that needs fixing. Craig

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I'm sorry, I thought the discussion was on FS2004.Exclude Builder works for FS2004, but does not work for FSX.For FSX we have to use the Shp2Vec tool in the FSX Deluxe Terrain SDK to create exclusion areas for many types of areas and some objects - like Autogen.There is a nice thread about a tool FSX_KML which makes using the tool much easier - http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81I've been using FSX, FSUIPC and AFCAD to create aprons where I want to exclude autogen. I then edit a KML file in notepad to mark the corners of the polygon - then use FSX_KML to create the .BGL file for the exclusions.

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-SNIP->I've been using FSX, FSUIPC and AFCAD to create aprons where I>want to exclude autogen. I then edit a KML file in notepad to>mark the corners of the polygon - then use FSX_KML to create>the .BGL file for the exclusions.>Reggie, what method are you using to "extract" the polylat/lon data for insertion into the xml file?I spent a lot of time the other night creating a polykml file in Google Earth using data points from AFCADlocked to FSX. I wound up writing the lat/lon values down in groups of 4-5 vertex points ( I had lot ofpoints...boundry fence creation...)Just thinking now, I suppose I COULD have createdan apron in the shape of my poly in AFCAD thendecompile the AFCAD to get the xml data point to insert... a bit round-a-bout but it should work. Paul

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The problem with a lot of airports in FSX is the airport boundary ground textures are not drawn correctly at the end of the runways. This in turn places a lot of autogen trees to close to a runway that are not there in real world and makes a Localizer or VASI unuseable. Using GE and KML_XML I have corrected the ground texture airport borders with the proper GUID at several local airports in my area. @PaulTo create a new boundary fence use AFCAD. Once AFCAD is locked to FSX delete all edge lighting (temp) useing night light option and draw the boundary fence with the apron edge lights all the way around your airport border. I use topdown slew mode.Make sure each turn of the apron edge lighting is connected so you will only have one vertex record when finished or however many records based on fence openings. You do not have to be precise until after the apron edge lights are finished. I zoom down close and at each connection of the edge lights I reposition more accurately to the airport border.Now decompile the AFCAD bgl and extract the apron edge light vertex records found at the bottom of the XML.Change to and close the vertex record with You can also create Blast Fence using the apron lights as a vertex string and then change the vertex records for a Blast Fence.In essence all you are doing is using the string of apron edge lights to create the vertexs and then change the record heading and ending statement from a edge light to a Boundary Fence. I posted this procedure weeks ago over on FSDeveloper in the SDE forum but it has moved down the post list.

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>The problem with a lot of airports in FSX is the airport>boundary ground textures are not drawn correctly at the end of>the runways. This in turn places a lot of autogen trees to>close to a runway that are not there in real world and makes a>Localizer or VASI unuseable.******* Christ! Where were/are the guys that developed FS9? A few new features for newbies but serious lack of succession in FSX.Are there many of those runways with VASI and Loc blocked up? Thanks for the guide, I guess it's just a matter of time before I start muddling with the trees.

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> Ask some of the real pilots out there. Believe it or not>there are> really runways out there in the real world with trees at the>end of> the runways.Oh Come on!!! it may seem there are trees at the end of the runway in real life, but in reality the tree top height is below safe take off height, otherwise they would be cut down, despite protests.I challenge anyone to show evidence of a tree growing at the exact end of a runway.This is something FSX needs to address, though :)

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The hard way.It looks to me like the FSX_KML program only works with decimal values for lat/long.It's easier for me to just switch AFCAD to that mode - put the mouse pointer on the polygon nodes and read the info and type it into the KML text file.But I have two monitors on every computer I own - dual screens are SO NICE !!!I'm just starting to work with FSX_XML.One thing I would recommend you do early in any airport process is open the FSX_KML created .bgl and the default cvxNNNNN.bgl at the same time with Terrain Viewer. You can see easily if the airport is offset because of the differences between real world survey data and WGS84 - which GE and GPS use.The airports I've worked on so far have this offset, so the GE polygon is pretty useless.

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FS2002 started a major redesign in the world system.FS9/FS2004 was/ is a mess because some data is in the old system and some is in the new system.FSX is much cleaner and easier to work with, modify, update.What we learned about FS2004 makes it much easier to work with FSX. Those who fought against the XML changes in FS2004 missed a great opportunity to update their skill set and are now struggling to catch up.But there are tremendous amounts of information missing for the source data. The complete remodel of the world is a huge leap forward, but data discrepancies are very noticable.The reality is that small airports do not need to be surveyed accurately. Satellite photos are several levels more accurate than ground surveys in many areas.When landing a Husky on a bush strip, the pilot is not comparing the GPS location to 12 decimal places against the survey data, he's lining up with the visual runway. But we need 12 decimal place accuracy to work in the computer designed world. The real world does not need or want to bother with that level of accuracy.We really need a new landclass element or process so that runway extended centerlines can be identified and autogen will only rise a small amount based upon it's distance from the runway centerline. Yes trees are an issue - but FS2004 had as bad or worse issues with buildings in many cities and downtown airports. Check out SKMD in FS2004 default.I guess it boils down to this in my view. FSX is a HUGE LEAP FORWARD but most of that development is in the underlying structure of how the program works and does things. It is built for the future and once a few big issues like round earth and airport polygons are solved, it will surpass any capability of FS2004.FS2004 is running on a 1958 Nash 6 cylinder engine, FSX runs on a 2007 Ferrari V12. Our old tools do not work on the new technology, so we need to update them and our skills sets.

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Thanks for all the repsonses, I'm afraid this is way over my head.Maybe at some point someone could post a step by step process on how to chop down those trees at the end of Runway 16 at KORS.Thanks again,Steve

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Oh Come on!!! it may seem there are trees at the end of the runway in real life, but in reality the tree top height is below safe take off height, otherwise they would be cut down, despite protests.All you have to do is a Google Search and see how many airports havetrees or other obstacles near the runway threshold. Many requiringas much as a 7:1 Glideslope to clear.Also check any issue of Flying Magazine and read an aircraft report.At the end of the reports your will find all pertinent aircraft information, one of which is the takeoff distance required to cleara 50' obstacle.For instance on a recent Cirrus SR22 report you will fine that it lists the following:Takeoff Distance (with 50' obstacle) 1574'If you think that an airport can simply remove trees whenever theywant perhaps you should talk to people whose property abuts an airportand you will find that it's simply not that easy. Airports have to be good neighbors...especially small GA airports and have to answerto the public..they aren't autonomous.Clearly those numbers are listed for a reason.Check this link to see for yourself.http://www.airnav.com/airport/O28Ells Field-Willits Municipal AirportWillits, California, USAIdentifier O28Craig ASUS A8N- nForce SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCIe MOBOAMD ATHLON64 3500+ CPU w/ HT TechLG GWA-4161 DVD/CDSeagate ST3160811AS 160GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQSeagate ST3160811AS 250GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQEVGA 7950 GT KO PCIe 512mb nvodngov19147-[Guru3D.com] drivers SB Audigy 22G Corsair PC 3200 400MHZ Dual Channel DDR Super Alien 500W P/STrack IR3 w/vectorCH Yolk & RuddersFS Genesis Terrain MeshActive SkyRC4

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-SNIP->@Paul>>To create a new boundary fence use AFCAD. >>Once AFCAD is locked to FSX delete all edge lighting (temp)>useing night light option and draw the boundary fence with the>apron edge lights all the way around your airport border. I>use topdown slew mode.>-SNIP->Now decompile the AFCAD bgl and extract the apron edge light>vertex records found at the bottom of the XML.-SNIP->I posted this procedure weeks ago over on FSDeveloper in the>SDE forum but it has moved down the post list. > Thanks for that info, Jim. I did some searching over at FSDbefore I created the fence but must have missed yourpost there...would have saved me alot of writers cramp from jotting down all my lat/lon data :)I, too, have been replacing alot of my airfield boundrytextures using GE and KML_XML. I'm using "airfield 1" ( I think it's called ). Seems to look good in the winterin any case. I do have several texture mods installed so I'mnot sure if this one is a modified file or the original.In any case, it's not that ugly brown... Paul

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That link shows a strip with 11 ft. trees 240 ft from the end of a runway. I've encounterd several strips in FS9, at least, with something more like a 50ft tree within a couple hundred feet of the end of a runway. That's quite a bit different than the real world example you provided. I've yet to fly into such a strip in FSX, but I'm assuming based on the original post that situations like this remain in FSX.

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Sure. I recommend using SBuilderX from here:http://www.ptsim.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18Read about getting and installing the manifold toolbar into IE. You have 2 choices: use FSX sidexside in slew mode to connect via simconnect, or use background images. This example is for background image.1. determine lat/long of airport: -122.91 48.71. Open IE and use the Manifold toolbar to find your subject area. Manifold will pull down from several different sources. In this instance I found Virtual Earth to be best resolution. Manifold pulls down tiles into its cache folder. You must zoom as necessary to get the proper resolution tiles downloaded. These will be loaded by SBuilderX.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168779.jpgStart SBuilderX and create a new project. Enter project name and location for BGL files (this could be addon sceneryscenery, but I prefer to save them in a project folder and drag them into FSX myself).http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168780.jpgUse the view menu "Go to Position..." to set the center to -122.91/48.71 and then use it again to check the "Show Background"http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168781.jpgyou should see the Manifold tiles. If you zoom in too far they won't appear, though. Once you have your background you can create the autogen polygon using the poly tool. You click to place a vertex/ start a polygon, then as you click vertices will be added to the polygon. The polygon is closed automatically. When you are done you type "esc" to get out of building mode.Now you can set the properties of the polygon. Put the mouse over an edge (NOT a vertex) of the polygon and right-click to bring up the context menu. You can use this menu to set the fill transparaeny and also to set the polygon properties. When you click on properties you will see this:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168782.jpgEnter a name for your polygon, then go and scroll down the scroll box. this contains all the various types of polygons you can create. You want "Airport_Backgrounds_ExcludeAutoGen" (if needed you could also flatten or change the texture as well). Once you have that selected click OK, and save your project. This is the polygon I created, going by how the photo tiles appeared:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168783.jpgYou can edit the vertices, add new vertices/delete vertices etc. When you are happy, go to the select tool and select "all polygons" then select the compile toolhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168784.jpgCheck the "Terrain Vector" and "copy files to BGL Floder" boxes, then "compile". The cvx_projectname.bgl file can be dragged into your addon sceneryscenery folder or other active scenery folder. Here is what that polygon gave me in FSX: http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168785.jpgI attached the bgl I created, in case you want to try it out.scott s..

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Thanks for the excellent tutorial Scott!RegardsBert

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>That link shows a strip with 11 ft. trees 240 ft from the end>of a runway. I've encounterd several strips in FS9, at least,>with something more like a 50ft tree within a couple hundred>feet of the end of a runway. That's quite a bit different than>the real world example you provided. I've yet to fly into such>a strip in FSX, but I'm assuming based on the original post>that situations like this remain in FSX. Ok...here is one more link : http://www.somersetairport.com/runwayinfo.htmFor those of you who don't believe there are actually runway obstructions at the end of a runway just do your own search.If you don't choose to believe it then so be it.C

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>>I, too, have been replacing alot of my airfield boundry>textures using GE and KML_XML. I'm using "airfield 1" >( I think it's called ). Seems to look good in the winter>in any case. I do have several texture mods installed so I'm>not sure if this one is a modified file or the original.>In any case, it's not that ugly brown...>I have been using the tag that removes Autogen only, but in a few cases I have used an AirportBackground_ tag if GoogleEarth shows mowed grass (or its equivalent) there.Trees in the gildepath is a serious issue, but it's not as serious as trees actually on the airfield! See Philip S W Goldson airport in Belize in stock FSX for that.I think Flores, (MGTK) in Guatemala had it too.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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re: how I do itI use F12 topdown view and slew at 1/4 time compression, to get lat long values for making ground polys, fences, parking, etc. I use GoogleEarth for reference points, and FS_KML.I don't use SBuilder, but your post will entice me to try it.It sure is interesting to see how others are making their polys. I don't have two monitors or dual installs or anything like that.ALT-TAB is my friend.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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Thank you all, and thank you Scott for the perfect tutorial and file.Well done, I appreciate it!Steve

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I should have noted in the screen shot, the light green "grass" area around the airport is the result of the default polygon, which is using the "MaskClassMap" property. In FS9 and FSX, MaskClassMap is used to replace the texture normally resulting from the landclass process. In this case it creates the airport ground texture, but it also is used for utility corridors, for example.If you look carefully, at the edge of the airport light green texture is some of the "normal" landclass texture, but without the autogen trees. That's what the "ExcludeAutoGen" property does.If you don't like the size/shape of the default "grass" area, you could create an additional exclusion polygon to remove the default, and then add another polygon with the MaskClassMap property (in this case, you would also need to set the Flatten property, since excluding the default polygon will also remove the flatten). For more help, recommend using Scenery Design forum here, or FSDeveloper.com. That way more (and better) designers can help out on this.scott s..

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