5 hours ago, jarmstro said:

But I am not silly enough to imagine that any PC flight sim in any way resembles real life.

If you 100% believe you are sat in the cockpit and that you will die if you hit the ground (or the skyscraper you are close to clipping in a eurofighter) charging towards you hard enough.

aka VR

how much closer to real life do you need it to get? actually break your bones if you screw up? 

Thats why all those people are screaming with VR headsets on. Thats why the kids sit there shouting oh my god this is amazing.

Thats why you can never go back to 2D. 2D is not a flight sim anymore, you are sat at your desk looking at a monitor watching a flight simulator, as far removed from the simulator as watching someone live stream.

Yes scenery plays a part in that - how much do you believe you are actually where you think you should be: vitally important for VFR flying aircraft with no gps. even with gps not looking close to what you know it should do and the spell is broken.

Thats why msfs screenshots and photogrametry dont impress me.

Show me someone praising photogrammetry in VR and I might reconsider just how little regard I have for it.

Last I saw ms couldnt even do a hill with some grass well, let alone blast round NYC at mach.

Edited December 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

5 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Why? I thoroughly enjoyed the XP Vulkan beta process and, let's face it, FS2020 is in beta and will be for the foreseeable future. But I am enjoying it as well.

because working when I want it to is the most important thing in flight sim.

I tried skipping the beta once and half the things that were important to me were broken when it came out of beta, then I had no flightsim.

Edited December 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

Show me someone praising photogrammetry in VR and I might reconsider just how little regard I have for it.

I don't want to start another FS2020 squabble but will just point out that you can turn photogrammetry off you know.? And then you still have the whole world with high res orthos to fly in which must save you, oh I don't know, maybe three squillion new drives and  £10000000 worth of OrbX?

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by jarmstro

38 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

that you can turn photogrammetry off you know.?

I do know.

I also know people turn it off even in 2D.

The other way you can "turn it off" is to use xplane11 instead 🤣 Which seems to be the way many people are trending.

38 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

whole world with high res orthos

As per the other thread. "not really".

Streaming you are limited by the network bandwidth and your airspeed. For a C172 at 5000 feet, yes if you wait half an hour or so before you take off you'll get almost OrbX quality.

For a 744 at 30000 feet, you'll "be lucky" if a streaming server can send you low res ortho without dropping out.

Downloading you are limited only by your disk space and the effort you are willing to put into preflight setup. More importantly the experience is 100% consistent unless you decide you want to change something up (or down) a notch.

38 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

start another FS2020

Doesnt need to have anything todo with ms. these issues are technical limitations, and apply equally to anything Laminar or 3rd parties offer for XP12 or XP12+1 as to MS.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

Streaming you are limited by the network bandwidth and your airspeed. For a C172 at 5000 feet, yes if you wait half an hour or so before you take off you'll get almost OrbX quality.

For a 744 at 30000 feet, you'll "be lucky" if a streaming server can send you low res ortho without dropping out.

Well I can't say that's something I've ever noticed with FS2020 (200 mbs/sec)? Seems pretty flawless unless the servers are down. There have been arguments about LOD but that has nothing to do with the orthos. Or does it? Maybe that's what the rolling cache is for? Ie- pre loading the scenery to disk?

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by jarmstro

11 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

unless the servers are down

aka 

low res ortho at 30,000 feet is flawless but still causes the server to drop out if you stream it.

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

aka 

low res ortho at 30,000 feet is flawless but still causes the server to drop out if you stream it.

The severs have only been down two or three times in one and a half years as far as I can recall. And there's now the option to switch to Google via a mod. 
 

The main issue I have with using orthos in XP is the abrupt and very noticeable colour changers between the scenery tiles. The higher you fly the worse it gets. I don't see this in FS2020 although there is one where it just about shows up under some conditions between Exeter and Bristol in the UK near where I live.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by jarmstro

9 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

noticeable colour changers between the scenery tiles.

Yep, and the clouds hence why I'm not talking about this from an MS perspective.

But rather a 

Perspective, for a sim I cannot discuss anymore.

22 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Yep, and the clouds hence why I'm not talking about this from an MS perspective.

But rather a 

Perspective, for a sim I cannot discuss anymore.

It's frightening really when you think about it. In the not too distant future maybe the whole world will be photographically digitised in 3D down to a blade of grass or grain of sand and each nano second of every day. And VR will be so real with all five senses simulated that we won't ever need to leave our rooms to do anything at all with zero risk!! At which point are we actually alive anymore? 😀🥵

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by jarmstro

47 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's frightening really when you think about it. In the not too distant future maybe the whole world will be photographically digitised in 3D down to a blade of grass or grain of sand and each nano second of every day. And VR will be so real with all five senses simulated that we won't ever need to leave our rooms to do anything at all with zero risk!! At which point are we actually alive anymore? 😀🥵

Matrix 4 is out soon.

48 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

It's frightening really when you think about it. In the not too distant future maybe the whole world will be photographically digitised in 3D down to a blade of grass or grain of sand and each nano second of every day. And VR will be so real with all five senses simulated that we won't ever need to leave our rooms to do anything at all with zero risk!! At which point are we actually alive anymore? 😀🥵

The way this world is going green, there will be a day where you wont have enough power for a 12V led.

On 12/14/2021 at 9:32 AM, CarlosF said:

Unless someone has some kind of $$$$ investment on MS, why would anybody be "VERY WORRIED" about XP12 release. Ridiculous and baseless statement if you ask me, Im a FS2020 user (XP user for a long time too) and really looking forward to XP12 release. 

Hi,

I always find it a bit funny when people talk about addons that they spent $$$$ good money on.... Yet Y E A R S later (after enjoying them over and over again) they feel like they didn't get their moneys worth our of the software and refuse to update.

Maybe think about your software as HARDWARE with a life expectancy! Then maybe you won't feel like you're losing tons of dollars when you move on! No different than buying a new car, use it for 10s of years and then refuse to get rid of it due to all the maintenance dollars you put into it!

Also note: It's not about the few dollars spent on MS2020 that they will be worried about, it's about MS2020 being pulled from the market as they have done in the past!!! Ridiculous and baseless? Time will tell as it always does!!!
 

45 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I always find it a bit funny when people talk about addons that they spent $$$$ good money on.

Well, in my particular case, lets see: I have spent on MSFS less then $100 on add-ons (PMDG DC-6), over the years I've spent less then $200 on XP add-ons, didn't spend much on FSX either, and on P3D, just the 1 month subscription, didn't like it,  to me its was just another FSX on steroids.

I'm not a fan-boy of any simulator, my wallet will follow whatever platform gives the immersion and satisfies my own needs. Period!

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by CarlosF

1 hour ago, CarlosF said:

Well, in my particular case, lets see: I have spent on MSFS less then $100 on add-ons (PMDG DC-6), over the years I've spent less then $200 on XP add-ons, didn't spend much on FSX either, and on P3D, just the 1 month subscription, didn't like it,  to me its was just another FSX on steroids.

I'm not a fan-boy of any simulator, my wallet will follow whatever platform gives the immersion and satisfies my own needs. Period!

I've jumped from platform to platform over the years myself, Microsoft Flight Simulator for the Tandy 1000 computer for starters all the way up to MS2020, then there is MS Flight, X-Plane, P3D and so on. In contrast to you, I've spent over 100K in flight simulation and for me, it has nothing to do with cash spent. I'm also grateful I'm in a position to support 3rd party vendors by opening my wallet over the years, it's what has allowed this community to grow to what it is today. 

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

28 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I'm also grateful I'm in a position to support 3rd party vendors by opening my wallet over the years, it's what has allowed this community to grow to what it is today. 

Obsoletely, something we can agree on.