14 minutes ago, ark said:

With the throttle at idle and the condition lever at High Idle, I see a NG of about 63. If I move the condition lever all the way up I get an NG of about 72. So we do need to know what the NG should be at High Idle with the throttle at Idle.

Al

Exactly! 63 vs 72 sounds right. That's what I see too. You quoted the answer! 😉 It should be 72. See the edit of my post. The SWS is rigged so it gives 'full' high idle with the lever fully forward. The bush pilot's lever is rigged so it can't go further that somewhere around the marker. In real life that position will be different in every plane, as GACSavannah posted, and our simulated plane makes use of the full range (and actually DOES reach the physical stop, which apparently isn't completely realistic). 

So... no need to fool around with FSUIPC7 to 'fix' this because you will only be limiting the engine. 😉

Maybe SWS can change this so the condition lever is rigged to stop nearer to the high idle mark! 

Edited January 16, 20224 yr by tup61

22 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Exactly! 63 vs 72 sounds right.

So far I have not been able to find a video to confirm the NG value of about 72 with the throttle at Idle and condition lever at High Idle. Your eyes must be a lot better than mine!  😉

Al

5 hours ago, ark said:

So far I have not been able to find a video to confirm the NG value of about 72 with the throttle at Idle and condition lever at High Idle. Your eyes must be a lot better than mine!  😉

Al

The NG value in flight idle seems unimportant to me, as long as low idle keeps my speed controllable while taxiing. When I go to High idle, where the marker is, it is too fast for taxiing. Now once I take off, and apply takeoff power, I see no difference at all moving the lever from High Idle to all the way forward as far as it will go, full power remains the same. Now wanting to practice bad habits, I am going to use the recommendation in the Kodiak  POH of low idle for taxi, and high idle for takeoff.  

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Now once I take off, and apply takeoff power, I see no difference at all moving the lever from High Idle to all the way forward as far as it will go, full power remains the same.

I just tried a similar experiment. At full throttle, e.g.takeoff power, I saw no meaningful change in Torque, ITT, NG or Fuel Flow between the Full forward and High Idle condition lever positions.  When I pulled the throttle back for about a 140Kt cruise at 10,000ft I did see some difference between the Full forward/ High Idle condition lever positions: Torque 1165/1040, ITT 581/ 551, NG 93/90 and Fuel Flow 278/252. Which set of cruise values is most correct I don't know.

So depending on what you take as a reference, at cruise there was approximately a10% change in torque and fuel flow between the High Idle and Full forward positions of the condition lever, and no change at full takeoff power. I don't see the differences as particularly significant, and I'm willing to assume the developer looked at some of this during testing of the fight model. So at this point it seems reasonable to me to follow the POH and use the High Idle position as done in the real world. 

To each their own.

Al

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by ark

5 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

The NG value in flight idle seems unimportant to me, as long as low idle keeps my speed controllable while taxiing. When I go to High idle, where the marker is, it is too fast for taxiing. Now once I take off, and apply takeoff power, I see no difference at all moving the lever from High Idle to all the way forward as far as it will go, full power remains the same. Now wanting to practice bad habits, I am going to use the recommendation in the Kodiak  POH of low idle for taxi, and high idle for takeoff. 

Indeed, high idle during taxi isn't a good idea! 😉 And once up in the air it doesn't really matter where you set that condition lever. In fact, even setting it back to low idle hardly makes a difference up in the air! And that's how it should be because I read in one of the documents that the condition lever mainly does its job during accelaration, so during take off. So I will also follow the POH although my interpretation is different than yours LOL because I'd like to do it as the real world pilots do it. 😉 But in the end it doesn't make a huge difference: due to my absent-mindedness I already took off a few times with the condition lever at low idle and no flaps... and I didn't notice it at all LOL! 😜

  

3 hours ago, ark said:

I don't see the differences as particularly significant, and I'm willing to assume the developer looked at some of this during testing of the fight model. So at this point it seems reasonable to me to follow the POH and use the High Idle position as done in the real world. 

To each their own.

Indeed. 😉 But since I fly a lot in and out of very short strips in PNG I will do what the bush pilot does and take advantage of every inch of power I can get! I'd rather not hit those (not too realistic) trees that often block the end of the runway in MSFS. 😁

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by tup61

3 hours ago, ark said:

I'm willing to assume the developer looked at some of this during testing of the fight model. So at this point it seems reasonable to me to follow the POH and use the High Idle position as done in the real world.

I just asked SWS how they exactly programmed that condition lever and they said 'For take-off & flight, you should push the lever fully forward'. So there you have it: SWS rigged the lever to reach the optimal setting when pushed fully forward, just like the bush pilot and other real world pilots do. When you set it at the marker, so half way, you are missing out on power. Feel free to do so but don't tell me I didn't warn you when you crash into trees at take off! 😜

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by tup61

4 hours ago, tup61 said:

 When you set it at the marker, so half way, you are missing out on power.

Not at takeoff according to my measurements. I saw no change in torque or NG between setting the condition lever at full forward and the high idle mark when the throttle was full forward for takeoff.

And remember, for the Missionary Bush pilot the high idle mark IS full forward in his aircraft. And the POH says to use the high idle position as well.

Thx,

Al

 

 

5 minutes ago, ark said:

Not at takeoff according to my measurements. I saw no change in torque or NG between setting the condition lever at full forward and the high idle mark when the throttle was full forward for takeoff.

And remember, for the Missionary Bush pilot the high idle mark IS full forward in his aircraft. And the POH says to use the high idle position as well.

Thx,

Al

 

 

I think we have two schools of thought here:

1.  Follow the recommendations of the factory POH and set the idle at fast for takeoff, just as all the videos that show real pilots flying the Kodiak are doing. 

2. Follow the incorrect design of the SWS Kodiak, which shows the condition lever having the ability to travel way past the fast idle position which is not possible in the real Kodiak, and  ignoring what real KODIAK pilots and the Kodiak POH dictate as the proper way to fly the aircraft. 

I'm sticking with choice #1. 

  

35 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

1.  Follow the recommendations of the factory POH and set the idle at fast for takeoff, just as all the videos that show real pilots flying the Kodiak are doing.

What you are calling high idle (the marker) is not high idle but more or less mid idle. If you want to follow the POH you need to set the lever fully forward in THIS particular Kodiak. The POH is all about the numbers and the power, not about how it looks.

LOL You are both totally missing the point here. 😆 Do you want real life power or 'real life visuals'? You can indeed set it to the marker if you want to but you will not get the right numbers on the engine.

But well, but to each his own! However you do it, it is a great plane to fly anyway! 😉

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by tup61

3 minutes ago, tup61 said:

You can indeed set it to the marker if you want to but you will not get the right numbers on the engine.

Maybe our systems are showing something different.

Do you see a difference in the engine numbers between the condition lever settings of high idle and full forward on takeoff with the throttle full forward?

Al

3 minutes ago, tup61 said:

  

What you are calling high idle (the marker) is not high idle but more or less mid idle. If you want to follow the POH you need to set the lever fully forward in THIS particular Kodiak. The POH is all about the numbers and the power, not about how it looks.

LOL You are both totally missing the point here. 😆 Do you want real life power or 'real life visuals'? You can indeed set it to the marker if you want to but you will not get the right numbers on the engine.

But well, but to each his own! However you do it, it is a great plane to fly anyway! 😉

I follow the POH and have not had one issue with the power on takeoff or climb. 

Guys guys... have youi bothered to check the takeoff power for OTHER aircraft in the sim when you dont have the condition lever maxed, because maybe the sim just doesn't simulate this properly is all?

Maybe you will get full power at full throttle in ALL aircraft within the sim no matter what your condition lever is set at? In this case it would make no difference if you used the market on the TQ or fully forward. If you prefer to use the marker as practice for the real aircraft then it sounds like it works that way as well. But from what you all have said so far it doesnt sound like its going to make any difference as far as takeoff and cruise power...only for taxiing will you see the difference.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by hangar

I think you're both right 😉

There are two questions for me:

-- What is routinely done in the real aircraft as far as the condition lever is concerned?

-- In the simulated aircraft, do you get the correct power, or close to it, at takeoff and normal cruise with the condition lever at the high idle mark?

Since, as was noted above, whether the condition lever is full forward or at high idle on takeoff (full throttle) does not seem to make any difference power wise, the issue comes down to what should the power settings show at cruise? If would be good if we had a typical set of values for that at some cruise setting (at some IAS at some altitude).

Al

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by ark

6 minutes ago, ark said:

Maybe our systems are showing something different.

Do you see a difference in the engine numbers between the condition lever settings of high idle and full forward on takeoff with the throttle full forward?

Al

I see no difference, exactly the same.