Went live about half an hour ago. Very excited by the CFD elements discussed by Asobo at 2m20s onwards which I wasn't previously aware of; propwash, wake vortex turbulence (not clear if this will affect other aircraft in multiplayer), deep stall will all be simulated natively and said to be easily added to most aircraft. I hope it feels as good as the visualisations look! The prop improvements I already knew about that are coming with SU8 seem to need a bit more input from aircraft developers to be implemented.

Asobo also introduced a flight test engineer and pilot towards the end of the video, illustrating some of the real life flight testing they've done to validate their CFD model. All very impressive stuff, I hope it translate to good results in the sim. It's nice to see Asobo are taking the actual flying part of the sim seriously.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by ckyliu

Excellent! That stall behavior in the C172 is much more realistic. All of the airplanes previously entered a spin too easily. It’s cool that they were able to produce a realistic spin entry, but it was entirely overdone. This looks much better. 

Nice.  That’s really cool that they brought in a test engineer and pilot to go up there with a real plane to verify the CFD in MSFS was accurate.  

Very cool,very well done Asobo/Microsoft thank you ! 

A few weeks ago I had actually seen the job announcemenbt for an aerodynamicist at the ASOBO site under "Job Opportunities".

Good News !

In the SU8 beta the new propeller simulation is still practically unnoticeable, IMO.

In the video when focusing on the "Feathering" you can notice that there's no lift variation from the section of the wings behind the propeller disk when it stops, compared to the side where the engine is running and the propeller rotating and creating propwash. Either a graphical limitation on their visualization tool, or a detail that has still work ahead...

Nothing that we do not already have in other platforms like X-Plane, IL-2, DCS, and even in the first Flight Unlimited, but certainly welcomed in MFS, because it may finally bring it on pair with those platforms, if they really dedicate time X person to it and start fine tunning their flight dynamics model. This can only be positive, from my POV because regarding other aspects MFS already satisfies me very much.

I like the CFD visualization tool & graphics.

 

 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by jcomm

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

Nothing that we do not already have in other platforms like X-Plane, IL-2, DCS, and even in the first Flight Unlimited, but certainly welcomed in MFS, because it may finally bring it on pair with those platforms, if they really dedicate time X person to it and start fine tunning their flight dynamics model. This can only be positive, from my POV because regarding other aspects MFS already satisfies me very much.

Hi, I don't own X-Plane or P3D so I'm just curious.  How is the prop physics modeling in X-Plane and P3D?  Is the prop physics modeling in X-Plane and P3D comparable to MSFS, more advanced than MSFS, or less advanced than MSFS?  Do you know jcomm? Or does anybody else using those platforms know?

 

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

A few weeks ago I had actually seen the job announcemenbt for an aerodynamicist at the ASOBO site under "Job Opportunities".

I don't think this is cheap, hiring an aerodynamicist and a pilot with all the credentials full time, like the guy sitting to the left of Sebastian in the video (I assume the person hired for the aerodynamicist position was this guy in the video sitting next to Sebastian), and then sending him up on multiple flights to collect data.  I'm also curious, does P3D or X-Plane also have a full time aerodynamicist, that routinely takes a plane up to the skies, to cross check if the flight dynamics & flight data used in the simulator is accurate with respect to how the plane performs in real life? Does anyone know?

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

23 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Hi, I don't own X-Plane or P3D so I'm just curious.  How is the prop physics modeling in X-Plane and P3D?  Is the prop physics modeling in X-Plane and P3D comparable to MSFS, more advanced than MSFS, or less advanced than MSFS?  Do you know jcomm? Or does anybody else using those platforms know?

In P3D is just like in MFS with the Legacy FM. ACtually until now it's the same in MFS, but since ASOBO started simulating prop effects in a new way, the new propwash model, and the upcoming new features for SU8 final and then SU9, I believe we will have in MFS something like what we have in X-Plane.

Yes, in X-Plane and also in IL-2 and DCS World, prop effects and overall wash over lift / drag generating surfaces is something that has been there already for quite a while.

You can, since XP10, even visualize it using the FM-View ( using a keyboard combination to enable it ) and the output is pretty much what ASOBO has shown in their videos about the modeling of propwash effects for the upcoming updates.

28 minutes ago, jcomm said:

In P3D is just like in MFS with the Legacy FM. ACtually until now it's the same in MFS, but since ASOBO started simulating prop effects in a new way, the new propwash model, and the upcoming new features for SU8 final and then SU9, I believe we will have in MFS something like what we have in X-Plane.

Actually, that's not accurate at all. MSFS has been making various flight modelling changes for some time now.  Here is a video on such changes, before the the new prop physics & CFD changes were introduced:

So if P3D is just using the legacy FM from FSX, MSFS has already diverged from that, even before the new prop physics & CFD changes.

There was another video where they further refined the flight handling of the Cessna 152 (or was it the Cessna 172?) by having a pilot collect data in a real life Cessna 152/172, and then used that data to change/tweak how the Cessna 152/172 performed in MSFS. I can't find that video at the moment, maybe somebody else can link it. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Actually, that's not accurate at all. MSFS has been making various flight modelling changes for some time now.  Here is a video on such changes, before the the new prop physics & CFD changes were introduced:Cessna 152/172 performed in MSFS. I can't find that video at the moment, maybe somebody else can link it. 

"Abrams",

I was specifically referring to the "Propwash" modeling. The rest I have been following since the "birth" of MFS, and since I got my hands on it during the Alpha.

Those vectors you see on that "Episode 10 - Aerodynamics"  video were the first proof of big improvement on MFS compared to former versions. Again, it's been there in X-Plane, IL-2 and DCS since a long time.

Not saying it is "secondary", "not important", "already exists so not siginficative"... Quite on the contrary - I take my hat off to the ASOBO Team and their will to make MFS rewarding for all kind of simmer tastes !

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by jcomm

44 minutes ago, turbomax said:

here is the original video of Austin Meyer's apprentice somewhere over washington (hence he coined the term propwash-ington). They accidentally discovered prop wash as a by product...

Loving the humour in this thread!    Austin Powers  (Sorry, Meyer  - I knew I would get them mixed up one day) is definitely an eccentric. 
I watched him in some of his aerodynamics videos, and when they first introduced Vulcan graphics. 
He is definitely an extremely enthusiastic character that has a lot of confidence in his own ideas, waving his arms about like he is about to take off himself!

I tried Xplane 11 for a bit, and I had terrible trouble with the C172 take-offs and pulling to the left.  I always felt it wasn't quite right, but got shouted down, as 'Austin can't be wrong - you need to go full right rudder!'.  So all the time I was convinced that it was me, it turns out it was him - too much LDS Austin...  Too much LDS!... 

A contributing reason why I left Xplane behind was the way I got treated (and actually ripped-off) by the Xplane store.  Those guys are appalling, and treated me like dirt after taking my money and not delivering a product.  Never again!  I appreciate they are not directly linked to Laminar Research, but they do kind of support them a the 'go to' store.  I was relieved when MSFS was announced, as I needed something else to turn to (I tried the $200 P3D and found it too similar to a modded FSX).

Anyway, my experience with MSFS has been a lot better after initial frustration, and after a few regressions that have now been put right. 
The response from Asobo and the continuing ambition to develop things like these new aerodynamics is great to see.

After some justified criticism at times, we should encourage them to keep going in this direction, with the public betas, and even the quick updates to them. 

We do have to remember that the sim is still only 18-months old.  It took me 10 years and with Steves DX10 fixer to get FSX where I needed it.  Hopefully, this will not take that long, and we will have better accuracy with aerodynamics, improved system depth, better performance (Optimised DX12 +DLSS), and all the eye candy people can want as 'flight sim tourists'. 
 

For someone without experience in P3D or XP, like "abrams", MFS is surely the sim to embrace and stay with.

I am sure it'll grow bigger than what it already is, satisfying users that have different PoI in flight simulation.

In as far as I am concerned, and although my first add-on bought for MFS was the PMDG DC-6, I look forward to actually use it mostly for x-country preparation / familiarization, flying gliders over Portugal or, maybe this year also a bit in Spain !

The accuracy of the scenery is 2nd to none, and if the already announced gliding / soaring developments can bring nice soaring weather and flight dynamics, then even better ! And Portugal & Spain are receiving a dedicated WU next month 😍 !!!

P.S.: A suggestion: For those interested in trying out what I consider to be one of the best renditions of a P51d, and because IL-2 is expensive to use simply for an "experience" with an excellent flight simulator in terms of flight modeling, I would suggest trying out the free demo of DCS World that comes with the free TF51 module. I look forward to the day I can feel a P51 simulated that way ( or like in IL-2 )  in either MFS or X-Plane...

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by jcomm

18 minutes ago, jcomm said:

For someone without experience in P3D or XP, like "abrams", MFS is surely the sim to embrace and stay with.

Well, I owned FSX.  

My problem with P3D and XP is that you don't get as good value for the money.  You have to spend hundreds of dollars on add-ons just to make it look better, then you have to spend more money on a hard drive just to store ortho, and after all that spending, it still doesn't look good as the $60 you spend on MSFS.  And when you stack all the add-ons in P3D and XP to make it look good, from the feedback of what I have read, you don't get the performance of MSFS either.  Not to mention, the more add-ons you tack onto the simulator, the less stable it gets.  Simply put, MSFS gives you better value for your dollar, and the simulator itself is simply more advanced than P3D and XP.

MSFS has freed up some of the money I would have spent on add-ons, and I plan to buy a new computer within the next 1 or 2 years with the money that I have saved. From the money I saved using MSFS, I can also spend it on semi-expensive add-ons like the upcoming PMDG 737 for MSFS.

I am keeping an eye on XP-12.  I like that Austin is finally upgrading the graphics to something that at least looks modern.  And I am glad that Austin finally realizes that us customers don't like to buy all these add-ons to make the simulator look better, that we prefer that the simulator itself include it as part of the package.  Still, with MSFS matching and perhaps eventually surpassing XP's flight model, I don't know what value XP 12 has that is above and beyond MSFS.    IMO, at the moment, the main benefit of XP and P3D over MSFS is the huge library of study level airliners.  But study level airliners are likely to come out for MSFS over the next few years, starting with the PMDG 737 and Fenix A320.  After the study level airliners come out for MSFS, IMO, there's very few advantages that XP and P3D will have for MSFS, at least for my use. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

So I don’t know a whole lot about Asobo outside of “A Plague Tale” which is really good, but I see a bunch of Disney games on their site, and of course MSFS. 

How cool for Sebastian Wloch to be one of the founders and CEO of the company and go from writing Disney games to figuring out how to create a digital twin of the entire globe to now being in charge implementing a computational fluid dynamics engine for a flight sim.

And as the inevitable comparisons have already started, is it  possible that we acknowledge 2 things? 1. Austin Meyer has been working on his version of physics based flight modeling for around 30 years. What MSFS is doing now is not new, but very welcome for the franchise. 2. You don’t implement a CFD if you are only focusing on “gamers”

For me, the most amazing parts of both the most recent and past videos are the real time visualizations of the air flow model in the sim. It's mesmerizing - especially the finer details like the gentle turbulent wafting of the air mass around the plane (@ 2:30 in the current update and @ 3:20 in the previous aerodynamics part 2 update). It really demonstrates how relatively simple calculations can produce extremely realistic and chaotic results.

I'm almost more excited about the fact that these visualizations can be enabled in the sim as of SU9 as I am about the model update itself.

Here's a video about some of the math behind computational fluid dynamics:

 

7 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

So I don’t know a whole lot about Asobo outside of “A Plague Tale” which is really good, but I see a bunch of Disney games on their site, and of course MSFS. 

How cool for Sebastian Wloch to be one of the founders and CEO of the company and go from writing Disney games to figuring out how to create a digital twin of the entire globe to now being in charge implementing a computational fluid dynamics engine for a flight sim.

And as the inevitable comparisons have already started, is it  possible that we acknowledge 2 things? 1. Austin Meyer has been working on his version of physics based flight modeling for around 30 years. What MSFS is doing now is not new, but very welcome for the franchise. 2. You don’t implement a CFD if you are only focusing on “gamers”

The amazing thing with Sebastian is that he didn't have a pilot's license before MSFS, I believe.  During the development of MSFS, I think Sebastian went to get his pilot's license (I assume he completed it).  There is video of Sebastian flying solo, what a guy and what dedication he has to making MSFS better.