6 minutes ago, enright said:

I'm almost more excited about the fact that these visualizations can be enabled in the sim as of SU9 as I am about the model update itself.

Some people are saying you can already enable some of the visualizations in the SU8 beta?  I'm not in the beta, so I can't try it yet.

17 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The amazing thing with Sebastian is that he didn't have a pilot's license before MSFS

you are right, and the same was true for Bruce Artwick, the "inventor" of the first "Microsoft Flight Simulator" FS1 and FS2 back in 1981, who took flight lessons years after his first flight simulator was released. probably just as well. (and long before Austin Powers discovered p-factor), before they were bought out and became Microsoft's Simulator. Asobo's background was VR worlds and gaming, but through Microsoft they now have the funding and cash to buy the know how and staff they are/were lacking. One such example being WorkingTitle's CJ4 and NXi, I guess that was an initiative inspired by Microsoft's Jörg Neumann, who very early on recognized the lack of aviation background in Asobo. Just check out the job offerings on Asobo's web site and compare to x-plane/P3D hirings:

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

SDK QA Tester
Gameplay Programmer
Senior Game Designer
Aerodynamicist Programmer
Game/Mission Designer
Vehicle Artist
Junior Data Manager
Autopilot Programmer
Mission Designer
ATC & Flight planning Programmers
Engine Programmer
Online Programmer
Aircraft System Designer
Helicopter System Designer

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by turbomax

23 minutes ago, turbomax said:

https://www.asobostudio.com/careers

Gameplay Programmer
Game/Mission Designer
Mission Designer

I'm about 90% sure that one of the "surprise" updates planned for later in 2022 is a career mode based on these and other open positions in the past. Which would be awesome BTW. 

Asobo didn't exactly go from Disney games to MSFS. They developed their own open-world game and proprietary graphics engine early on in their history, which many developer teams don't do, often turning to the likes of Unreal Engine. They were working with Microsoft on their HoloLens technology, for commercial and private/industry applications. Despite what some people think, they are experienced with both VR and AR technologies.

They are definitely dedicated, but from my experience, game developers definitely are dedicated and passionate, and go out of their way to research everything. Many main coders usually have a background/education in physics/mathematics too.

With MSFS, they were lumbered with legacy code that they had to use, and connect to their own in-house developed engine/systems, while developing new ones with Black Shark and Meteoblue, and ever since launch they have not hidden the fact they have been trying to rewrite that legacy code, which wasn't designed or making use of modern hardware.

They have done so much, all the time constrained by the development pathway and release schedules enforced by the publisher, which now appears to be loosening up for them.

Anyway, I had a point about looking at Disney games and saying they've come a long way... They definitely have. But I wouldn't read much into "they used to do Disney games, now this". It isn't exactly like that. My own brother was working on interactive nursery rhyme software for kids, while also working on stuff for a private company, while also developing things like Halo, Lego, Worms franchise -- just stuff that doesn't really indicate anything about traveling a path of improved ability per se, simply diversity in projects.

But, yes, they are doing a great job with the sim, and they will just keep on bringing in new experience to the team via recruitment and partnerships. That's common on large projects. The sim is only getting better.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Some people are saying you can already enable some of the visualizations in the SU8 beta?  I'm not in the beta, so I can't try it yet.

I've definitely looked for the option, but couldn't find anything. They specifically said SU9 for the visualization option in the dev Q&A a few weeks ago, so I didn't look too hard. Will check again, and if anyone knows how or where to enable any of it in the current beta, please chime in!

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by enright

22 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Asobo didn't exactly go from Disney games to MSFS. They developed their own open-world game and proprietary graphics engine early on in their history, which many developer teams don't do, often turning to the likes of Unreal Engine. They were working with Microsoft on their HoloLens technology, for commercial and private/industry applications. Despite what some people think, they are experienced with both VR and AR technologies.

They are definitely dedicated, but from my experience, game developers definitely are dedicated and passionate, and go out of their way to research everything. Many main coders usually have a background/education in physics/mathematics too.

With MSFS, they were lumbered with legacy code that they had to use, and connect to their own in-house developed engine/systems, while developing new ones with Black Shark and Meteoblue, and ever since launch they have not hidden the fact they have been trying to rewrite that legacy code, which wasn't designed or making use of modern hardware.

They have done so much, all the time constrained by the development pathway and release schedules enforced by the publisher, which now appears to be loosening up for them.

Anyway, I had a point about looking at Disney games and saying they've come a long way... They definitely have. But I wouldn't read much into "they used to do Disney games, now this". It isn't exactly like that. My own brother was working on interactive nursery rhyme software for kids, while also working on stuff for a private company, while also developing things like Halo, Lego, Worms franchise -- just stuff that doesn't really indicate anything about traveling a path of improved ability per se, simply diversity in projects.

But, yes, they are doing a great job with the sim, and they will just keep on bringing in new experience to the team via recruitment and partnerships. That's common on large projects. The sim is only getting better.

Actually, Sebastian talks about the real life pilots, aviation engineers and mechanical engineers working for Asobo on MSFS, including ex-French Navy pilots, airline pilots, and other expert pilot consultants: https://youtu.be/2KdM2pT1hI8?t=504.  According to what Sebastian said in that part of the video, the Asobo team has 6000 total pilot hours.

Oh yes, I found the video with Sebastian flying solo. It's also in the video I just linked above.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

Oh yes, I found the video with Sebastian flying solo. It's also in the video I just linked above.

Yep, I seem to recall that several Asobo members actually went out and got their PPLs whilst developing the sim (before it was announced). Nice job, wish I could get a job that would pay for me to do that 

25 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Asobo didn't exactly go from Disney games to MSFS. They developed their own open-world game and proprietary graphics engine early on in their history

That’s cool and something that I didn’t realize. Although, I traded a keyboard for flight controls a few years ago, I do keep up with development trends. I read an article discussing how powerful engines such as Unreal, Frostbite, Unity, etc made application development more accessible to more people. However, the deep understanding of low level programming that is need to develop such an engine seems to be a lot more scarce these days. 
 

I certainly didn’t intend to imply that Seb or Asobo jumped from the kiddie pool to the deep end overnight. It is something to be proud of and something that I can point to as an example to broaden their perception to my kids as they have expressed an interest in game development. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by snglecoil

21 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Actually, Sebastian talks about the real life pilots, aviation engineers and mechanical engineers working for Asobo on MSFS, including ex-French Navy pilots, airline pilots, and other expert pilot consultants: https://youtu.be/2KdM2pT1hI8?t=504.  According to what Sebastian said in that part of the video, the Asobo team has 6000 total pilot hours.

Oh yes, I found the video with Sebastian flying solo. It's also in the video I just linked above.

Yes, they've been consulting with, and had testing done by, various pilots since early development, as well as of course learning to fly for the project. As I said, very dedicated and passionate from the start. And they will no doubt keep dipping into that pot of expertise. It must be an exciting project to work on (as well as incredibly frustrating, as these things often are, especially when you're trying to give everyone what they want and still keep the sim from bringing contemporary hardware to a grinding halt under the weight of ambition 😉).

26 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

the deep understanding of low level programming that is need to develop such an engine seems to be a lot more scarce these days. 

Absolutely. My brother understands machine code, for example, but he doesn't really use it now. He has, in the past. But nobody really does that level of coding now.

I don't even see games like the Disney ones as for kids. I still love those classic Disney games on the Master System, and you could say that games like Mario appeal to kids, but I love playing them. They're so inspired in terms of gameplay and creativity. They're just different from, say, Anno 1800 and whatever else I play. It's all good fun 🙂

9 hours ago, jcomm said:

You can, since XP10, even visualize it using the FM-View ( using a keyboard combination to enable it ) and the output is pretty much what ASOBO has shown in their videos about the modeling of propwash effects for the upcoming updates.

It's been a while since I tested this the last time, but to me those lines looked a lot less dynamic than what is shown in the video.

Anyhow, I really appreciate the work that Sebastian puts into the aerodynamics section. I think that was the biggest fear of some hardcore simmers - that once it's released, things like physics won't get any further attention as it's not a "flashy" feature.

3 hours ago, snglecoil said:

However, the deep understanding of low level programming that is need to develop such an engine seems to be a lot more scarce these days.

Well yes, things get more and more complex. The times where John Carmack would hack an engine over a weekend in the 90s are certainly over. Not a bad thing to have resources of Microsoft at your disposal. Innovations won't get less in future.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by tweekz

Anyone who goes on about them making it more into a game.... why would they have aerodynamic experts, flight test engineers, pilots etc as part of their team. I am very impressed. They seem to constantly be trying to improve. 

Ok, this one’s gotten completely out of hand. After this one’s been cleaned up of all the sim vs sim arguments, I’ll consider reopening it. For the life of me I can’t understand how hard it is to have a civil discussion and stop the arguments about which sim is better than the other.

Ok topic has been cleansed off all the “sim war” posts and arguments. If we can stay on topic of the original post the topic will stay open. The moment it turns into another sim vs sim argument about XP and MSFS, we’re done.