PMDG 737 vs. IFLY’s 737?

[DEHowie 269]

Everyone keeps saying the PMDG taxis better.

This may be true from a aircraft speed momentum view but the steering is completely broken and as was raised numerous times by real world pilots like myself the new steering model is simply terrible.

The lack of response to steering commands above 12-14kts is simply inaccurate and very wrong compared to real jet handling.

PMDG have become an increasingly frustrating company to me once a magic experience they have been left for dead by FSlabs and Leonardo and Majestic with superior functionality, realistic icing functionality, actual real life pilot experience much larger failure suites(PMDG's 777 only cover about 40-50% of available failures and is missing numerous big ticket failures), sounds that date from FSx and lacking core modern Boeing functionality.

All we ever hear from Randazzo is "its being worked on".

Its nice to see Ifly releasing a V5 dedicated version and ill grab it just to support a dev supporting my choice of simulator as opposed to the cash grab going on elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by DEHowie

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

I have no problems at all taxiing my NGXu 737-800 using 13 year-old CH Pedals.

Apply a little power to get her moving and then reduce to near idle to maintain around 15kts. Oh, and the throttles are controlled by Logitech / Saitek units. Hardly state of the art.

I’m not a real-world pilot.

[SimeonWilbury 220]

On 2/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, jon b said:

I remember comparing the PMDG & ifly 747s a few years back and although the PMDG was the obvious winner there wasn't a lot in it. As has been mentioned with the 737 above I actually found the ifly 747 LNAV the better of the two.

Thinking about this, and without meaning to divert too much from the primary topic - is there any word on the LNAV updates the PMDG 747 is supposed to be getting? I love the aircraft but the LNAV often can't be trusted on certain SIDs/ STARs with closely spaced waypoints. Development on that front appears to have been very slow.

I've no experience with iFly, but I can certainly say that the NGXu has my least favourite ground steering of any aircraft I've flown in the sim. I fly it on occasion but nearly always choose the MD80 or the BAe146 over it when I want to go short haul.

Edited March 2, 2022 by SimeonWilbury

[Iadbound 211]

39 minutes ago, SimeonWilbury said:

is there any word on the LNAV updates the PMDG 747 is supposed to be getting?

The last update from PMDG is that the LNAV update is in beta. https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/pmdg-747-queen-of-the-skies-ii-forum/161033-whats-already-been-offered?p=161539#post161539.  Here's a quote from RSR from Jan. 11, 2022: "We are preparing to beta test a pretty significant update to the 747 product line for P3D users. Quite a bit of initial testing has already been accomplished, but another round is needed in order to vet changes to LNAV and the flight director control laws that have been implemented. We are hoping to get positive feedback from our testers and then the update will roll out to users via the Operations Center. I will obviously let you know it is available with an announcement."  

But RSR also hyped this back in August: " Also in the background, we are putting an update for the PMDG 747 Queen of the Skies product line together for our beta teams. This update includes our new LNAV and flight director models and will be the first major overhaul to this area of our technology in nearly 12 years, which is exciting. The plan is that once our beta team signs off on it, we will push that to you and then begin rolling it into the 777 and 737 airplanes, both of which should go pretty quickly once the base tech is signed off in the 747. Once LNAV and the flight director are updated, we will make another pass-through to update the navdata process for all three product lines, which is the third-leg-of-the-stool for this core technology update cycle."  https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/144477-05aug21-pmdg-dc-6-for-msfs-updated-to-build-36-and-a-few-other-bits-and-bobbles-of-news  

[Fiorentoni 4,226]

19 hours ago, DEHowie said:

Everyone keeps saying the PMDG taxis better.

This may be true from a aircraft speed momentum view but the steering is completely broken and as was raised numerous times by real world pilots like myself the new steering model is simply terrible.

The lack of response to steering commands above 12-14kts is simply inaccurate and very wrong compared to real jet handling.

PMDG have become an increasingly frustrating company to me once a magic experience they have been left for dead by FSlabs and Leonardo and Majestic with superior functionality, realistic icing functionality, actual real life pilot experience much larger failure suites(PMDG's 777 only cover about 40-50% of available failures and is missing numerous big ticket failures), sounds that date from FSx and lacking core modern Boeing functionality.

All we ever hear from Randazzo is "its being worked on".

Its nice to see Ifly releasing a V5 dedicated version and ill grab it just to support a dev supporting my choice of simulator as opposed to the cash grab going on elsewhere.

Huh? None of my airliners is steered as easily as the 737. It's almost too easy. In comparison I have already wrecked a couple of FSL A320s due too reaaaally lacking response.

For the rest I can tell you that FSL is at or even below PMDGs level of system modelling, but they can hide it better. It took them years for the sharklets and they seem rather "dead" after MSFS released.
You are right about functionality (datalink etc.), though. It's a much better user experience, probably the best after the Maddog.

Well for the rest Leonardo is in its own league, Majestic is lacking even more functionality than PMDG (payload and fuel in-game, EFB, random failures etc.).

I agree with your general statement to PMDG as a company, though. However they have build up an excellent standing with 3 study level airliners and all its variants, and I've yet to see anyone challenge that complete effort on my list.

[micstatic 4,319]

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

Huh? None of my airliners is steered as easily as the 737. It's almost too easy. In comparison I have already wrecked a couple of FSL A320s due too reaaaally lacking response.

For the rest I can tell you that FSL is at or even below PMDGs level of system modelling, but they can hide it better. It took them years for the sharklets and they seem rather "dead" after MSFS released.
You are right about functionality (datalink etc.), though. It's a much better user experience, probably the best after the Maddog.

Well for the rest Leonardo is in its own league, Majestic is lacking even more functionality than PMDG (payload and fuel in-game, EFB, random failures etc.).

I agree with your general statement to PMDG as a company, though. However they have build up an excellent standing with 3 study level airliners and all its variants, and I've yet to see anyone challenge that complete effort on my list.

He is a real life pilot. Also majestic does have failures. 

[Fiorentoni 4,226]

1 hour ago, micstatic said:

He is a real life pilot. Also majestic does have failures. 

So what? He didn't say "it's good, but not realistic", he said it's lacking in response, which it is not. I can taxi the 737 all day around the airport without leaving the yellow line, so I suppose it's something with his controls, as Ray already suggested. Now if it's even better in the real 737, I'll take that, but I find it hard to remember any situation where the 737 wasn't able to do what I needed it to do.

Also Majestic does not have random failures, as I said.

[out 769]

5 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

FSL is at or even below PMDGs level of system modelling, but they can hide it better.

A very interesting statement to read.
I'm just trying to comprehend it. 🤔

[Fiorentoni 4,226]

7 hours ago, Rafal said:

A very interesting statement to read.
I'm just trying to comprehend it. 🤔

It‘s probably due to the different design of the 737 and the Airbus. The 737 has switches all over the place, with which you can (or even have to) manually control things that are automatically controlled in the Airbus. In the 737 there are so many „steps“ that you are manually involved in, that it‘s much more likely to notice something „off“ / not thouroughly modelled. In the airbus you have to voluntarily turn off automatic systems to notice anything at all. One example is hydraulics, which is IMHO better modelled on the 737.
Anyway it‘s a pointless discussion, because in the end the FSL Airbus creates great immersion during normal procedures, whatever the underlying systems may do or not do.

[micstatic 4,319]

Each has it merits. In the ngxu you can fly thru heavy icing with no de ice and have no effects whatsoever. In my opinion they are both fantastic planes. But I prefer the 737. 

[Steve Dra 7,588]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:30 PM, Patco Lch said:

as of now there is a limited number of paints available for IFly.

That is true, but I've heard the quality of those repaints are outstanding! 

I also heard that the main painter over there, while extremely busy with many other projects other than just the iFly 737, may have to turn his MAX attention to tend to matters over there in the future.

I suggest that all who read this post and understand my propensity for cute phrases mixed with hidden meaning, head over the the iFly general announcements forum. 😉 

[Christopher Low 5,353]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:58 PM, SimeonWilbury said:

I've no experience with iFly, but I can certainly say that the NGXu has my least favourite ground steering of any aircraft I've flown in the sim. I fly it on occasion but nearly always choose the MD80 or the BAe146 over it when I want to go short haul.

I remember reading all of the complaints about the new NGXu ground handling model when it was first released. I was curious, because the ground handling of the NGX (which I still use) seems really good to me. I cannot compare the two for obvious reasons, but I can compare the two options with respect to the 747. Whilst I can control the new version of the plane just fine, I personally think that it feels a bit "floaty" compared to the old version. I still fly the old version of the 777, and the ground handling for that plane feels (IMO) a lot more realistic than the new 747. I just get a greater feeling of weight and friction through tight turns.

Of course, these are just my opinions. I have never moved a real 737/747/777 around a real airport, so I do not know if my feelings are accurate or not.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Christopher Low

[SimeonWilbury 220]

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

I remember reading all of the complaints about the new NGXu ground handling model when it was first released. I was curious, because the ground handling of the NGX (which I still use) seems really good to me. I cannot compare the two for obvious reasons, but I can compare the two options with respect to the 747. Whilst I can control the new version of the plane just fine, I personally think that it feels a bit "floaty" compared to the old version. I still fly the old version of the 777, and the ground handling for that plane feels (IMO) a lot more realistic than the new 747. I just get a greater feeling of weight and friction through tight turns.

Of course, these are just my opinions. I have never moved a real 737/747/777 around a real airport, so I do not know if my feelings are accurate or not.

Yes, I certainly can't say how 'realistic' any of the ground handling of any of the aircraft are with any authority (the only aircraft where I potentially could would be a cessna 150/2 on a bumpy grass airfield!). I also taxi with rudder pedals with the lack of any physical tiller.

I think for me it is just the floaty-ness of the NGXu steering I dislike. I wasn't a fan of the NGX either with the level of friction, I do prefer the NGXu overrall but there's not much in it. Though I think my beef may just be with the 737 in general, also when set against the Leonardo Maddog it almost isn't a fair comparison these days.

Oddly enough the 747 is one of my favourites for ground handling, though I don't have the 777 or any other widebodies to compare it to. I do remember when I first purchased it back in 2018 it was using an older steering model which was a lot lighter, but it was later updated to a newer one which after a little getting-used to feels very satisfying to use. It has that right combination of weight and accuracy for me which makes it very enjoyable to taxi, I imagine some of that is potentially down to the body-gear steering.

Edited March 3, 2022 by SimeonWilbury

[Patco Lch 1,465]

4 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

That is true, but I've heard the quality of those repaints are outstanding! 

I also heard that the main painter over there, while extremely busy with many other projects other than just the iFly 737, may have to turn his MAX attention to tend to matters over there in the future.

I suggest that all who read this post and understand my propensity for cute phrases mixed with hidden meaning, head over the the iFly general announcements forum. 😉 

All true. Who ever that guy is 😎doing those paints he is the Leonardo Da Vince of airline paints. Or would it be Van Gogh?

[Steve Dra 7,588]

24 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

All true. Who ever that guy is 😎doing those paints he is the Leonardo Da Vince of airline paints. Or would it be Van Gogh?

Well.....I much prefer to be though of as Leonardo, who, amongst other talents, had may ideas about aviation. 

Van Gogh on the other hand...gets ticked and cuts his ear off.  If I had that mentality in dealing with difficult liveries, I'd been out of appendages to cut off long ago. 😂