10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

was there still a significant jet stream at that altitude?

In the region of a 100kt tailwind - the Mach number is the same, but the ground speed would have been higher. Probably something around 1250kts. 

12 minutes ago, MachTwo said:

In the region of a 100kt tailwind - the Mach number is the same, but the ground speed would have been higher. Probably something around 1250kts. 

What altitude Andrew? Still FL500+?

Yes - they wouldn't have deviated from procedure to chase the winds - so Max Climb/Max Cruise would have been used as normal for supercruise. The main factors would have been that a tail wind would have reduced the trip fuel, so they'd have been able to climb/accelerate faster out of New York - and probably cut the corner over W-105 and fly direct 67 West. That and a straight in on 09R at LHR. It wasn't difficult to do - other crews got close and could have beaten the record on occasions - but it only took one restriction to be enforced for the record to be missed. Departing and arriving into some of the most congested airspace in the world - I think that's mainly the reason why it was hard to beat - and probably why it's easier to get close to the record time in the simulator without any of the complications/hazards the real world crews had to contend with.

Edited March 17, 20224 yr by MachTwo

I can see people setting up weather manually in P3D to virtually beat that record.

Back in the real world was this a record that crews actively tried to beat if the atmospheric conditions were favourable? I wonder if they also avoided laying a sonic boom over Devon in their desire to delay the decel / descent until the last possible moment... or they decided it was worth the risk by delaying it by a minute or two. 😁

I know I have been back and forth about buying any more P3D stuff, but I am kinda back to P3D for 99% of the time now. Flying mostly FSL and PMDG birds and currently enjoying it way more than MSFS, so that's where I spend my time lately. When that Concorde comes around, I am definitely getting it. Same with any other goodies FSL has in the works - I have everything they have on the market and it's some of the best out there. All this Concorde discussion is making me salivate. 

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Back in the real world was this a record that crews actively tried to beat if the atmospheric conditions were favourable? I wonder if they also avoided laying a sonic boom over Devon in their desire to delay the decel / descent until the last possible moment... or they decided it was worth the risk by delaying it by a minute or two. 😁

I'm sure they did - but the conditions were really only favourable for a short window of the year. And everything had to fall into place, which I think anyone who works in aviation will tell you - doesn't happen often! 

Into London, they pushed the deceleration point out even further (by an extra 50 miles IIRC) for the winter season ops - so perhaps they had a little margin to play with there. I guess we'll never know. I'm sure the residents on the west coast were used to the odd rumble.

7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I can see people setting up weather manually in P3D to virtually beat that record.

Back in the real world was this a record that crews actively tried to beat if the atmospheric conditions were favourable? I wonder if they also avoided laying a sonic boom over Devon in their desire to delay the decel / descent until the last possible moment... or they decided it was worth the risk by delaying it by a minute or two. 😁

Sadly Ray I don't think so.Certainly the captain i knew had no interest in it.

These guys were the elite of BA pilots and spent as much time promoting BA as they did flying. There were a couple that were more interested in promoting themselves as well, one in particular. He was probably the only one that would have wanted the glory of it.

The captain i knew, flew her up to Edinburgh on the final day when they went to the regions,before all returning to LHR they positioned another captain to take her back, because he lived local, and was not going to fly back down to London and then have to position back home.

So as much as people think Concorde was magical, to these guys it was just another aircraft type that got them more wages.

 

1 hour ago, mazelda said:

So as much as people think Concorde was magical, to these guys it was just another aircraft type that got them more wages.

Really? Given the performance of Concorde compared to subsonic aircraft it’s the equivalent of driving a Lamborghini compared to a Ford Mondeo.

Looking at a 747 20,000ft below you as you overtook it at 800mph must have given them a huge superiority complex. 😉

In the last few weeks of service, a BA2 diverted into Cardiff. When they flew it back to LHR the next day, they sought an unrestricted climb to FL600 from ATC before departure - and then set the record for the fastest time to Mach 1 (just under 6 minutes if I recall correctly). 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Really? Given the performance of Concorde compared to subsonic aircraft it’s the equivalent of driving a Lamborghini compared to a Ford Mondeo.

Looking at a 747 20,000ft below you as you overtook it at 800mph must have given them a huge superiority complex. 😉

Until an SR-71 flew above them and asked for a speed check 🙂   One of my favorite stories.

 

 

1 hour ago, MachTwo said:

In the last few weeks of service, a BA2 diverted into Cardiff. When they flew it back to LHR the next day, they sought an unrestricted climb to FL600 from ATC before departure - and then set the record for the fastest time to Mach 1 (just under 6 minutes if I recall correctly). 

Wonderful! 😁 What was the routing? Round the Bay?

30 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Wonderful! 😁 What was the routing? Round the Bay?

Don't forget the Barcelona to NY charter the Concorde did... Would like to see that route and if they dipped south over the water immediately or crossed the continent before going supersonic.   

6 minutes ago, psolk said:

Don't forget the Barcelona to NY charter the Concorde did... Would like to see that route and if they dipped south over the water immediately or crossed the continent before going supersonic.   

Here’s the Great Circle Route. That’s about 45 mins of subsonic to get to the Bay of Biscay. No supersonic routing over Spain would be permitted. My guess is they would head for the Spain/France border.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LEBL-KJFK

21 minutes ago, psolk said:

Don't forget the Barcelona to NY charter the Concorde did... Would like to see that route and if they dipped south over the water immediately or crossed the continent before going supersonic.   

I don't have details for that - must have been one Air France flew. But yes, as Ray suggests - I think they'd have headed for the Bay of Biscay and then gone supersonic. 

54 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

What was the routing? Round the Bay?

Yes - only restriction was the rate at which they could pump the fuel aft. 

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Here’s the Great Circle Route. That’s about 45 mins of subsonic to get to the Bay of Biscay. No supersonic routing over Spain would be permitted. My guess is they would head for the Spain/France border.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LEBL-KJFK

Yep, I was wondering if they would have done that or if they went South through the straight of Gibraltar would they have been able to get supersonic quicker and despite a longer routing perhaps have been quicker.  I have to go to Simbrief and see what it really adds to the routing now 🙂