What is this? 1997?

[KERNEL32 512]

14 hours ago, mrueedi said:

With your first screenshot you loudly complain about some non cumulus-type of cloud, which in fact is looking mostly realistic as we have learned, and now you say there would be only cumulus clouds. I miss consistency in your reasoning.

Many here have proposed the idea that these are smushed or stretched cumulus and I agree. Thanks for your input though.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,910]

17 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

18 hours ago, scotchegg said:

1) I understand IRL cumuloforms are 3D, but the picture we're talking about and all the clouds in the sim in recent updates are flattened versions of this with clustered, puffy edges. It's just a 2D slice of a 3D form. I'm certainly not claiming that there are 2D cumuloforms IRL, this is just how MSFS appears to be generating flatter clouds.

2) No, I can not easily see the wave pattern in the original pic. I see repeated, flattened puffs.

1.  This still doesn't make sense. You could claim any status cloud in reality is just the middle slice of a cumulus cloud... it's all the same water vapor after all ;).  But without a defined updraft and visible vertical development, a cloud cannot be considered cumuloform.  It just... can't. 

2.  This is zoom of the OP image.  Zoom in further on it.  Note the yellow line. Note the repeating wave pattern in the clouds. 

The cloud in the image above is a stab at what - stratus, cirrus, cirro-stratus, alto-stratus?  Click on the links below and the only clouds you can say you have seen in MSFS using Live Weather are under the cumulus link.  However, I can click on any of the links and can say I have seen clouds of that type generated by REX Weatherforce.  The clouds in MSFS are ground breaking and can produce some amazing experiences, but I think it is pretty safe to say it only produces accurate (when not ash clouds) cumulus types of clouds.

Cirro-cumulus
Alto-cumulus,
Cirro-stratus
Alto-stratus
Cumulus

The post below is a great explanation how REX are managing to create more cloud types, when those skies are not just cumulus.

8 hours ago, Noel said:

15 hours ago, March Hare said:

Not quite. It uses the same graphics engine -- the sim's own rendering capabilities -- and it taps into the same data/variables that the sim's presets use, but manipulate's the numbers "on the fly" based on data from its own servers.

The sim's live weather engine uses different data, but still the same rendering engine that its presets and REX use.

As I said, part of the problem is the data in the live engine, but neither the sim's incoming data or REX's manipulation of the variables based on reports from its own servers would produce realistic, wispy cirrus, for example, because that's a current limitation of the graphics rendering, which REX doesn't do any of.

REX haven't proven that they can do better cloud rendering; they have proven that they can manipulate the sim's preset variables, so to speak, using an automated method. Asobo could have done that too, but their live weather engine (not rendering engine) is attempting something very different with how cloud and weather systems form in real time.

MS/Asobo will improve cloud types going forward, I have no doubt of that, but REX are producing them NOW!  Maybe MS should think about getting REX onboard, to incorporate the techniques they are using, to speed up weather development.

Edited April 19, 2022 by MrBitstFlyer

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

1 hour ago, KERNEL32 said:

Many here have proposed the idea that these are smushed or stretched cumulus and I agree.

Oh, let's use the actual term that was used:  "flattened cumulus."  I love this term because there couldn't be a more extreme oxymoron.  😉 But when you guys figure out what exactly that is, be sure ya let us know...

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

44 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

The cloud in the image above is a stab at what - stratus, cirrus, cirro-stratus, alto-stratus?

Cirrostratus undulatus, to be very specific. A type of stratiform cirrus cloud that appears to undulate in repeating waves. It typically marks an area where you'll feel some wave action near the top or bottom of a jetstream.  Could be bumpy, could be smooth with rythmic airspeed fluctuations. 

[scotchegg 4,272]

23 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Oh, let's use the actual term that was used:  "flattened cumulus."  I love this term because there couldn't be a more extreme oxymoron.  😉 But when you guys figure out what exactly that is, be sure ya let us know...

I think the gap in understanding isn't this side, it's just exhausting having to walk you through it.

If you cut a slice of orange, is it still orange even though it's 2D and an orange is an inherently 3D thing?! Or are you still stuck at 'but you can just say all oranges, or all fruit, are made up of 2D slices'?

Edited April 20, 2022 by scotchegg

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

I think the gap in understanding isn't this side, it's just exhausting having to walk you through it.

If you cut a slice of orange, is it still orange even though it's 2D and an orange is an inherently 3D thing?! Or are you still stuck at 'but you can just say all oranges, or all fruit, are made up of 2D slices'?

Huh? 

True or false: all clouds are condensed water vapor? 

If true, then - true or false: the differentiation between stratus and cumulus clouds is the absence or presence of an updraft creating visible vertical development in the condensed water vapor? 

If true, then - how can you "trim away" the updraft and vertical development, and be left with a cumulus cloud? 

You seem to be claiming that you can remove the very things that define a cumulus cloud, and still have one. This is where I'm having trouble...

Edited April 20, 2022 by Stearmandriver

[Cpt_Piett 4,898]

This is descending (or perhaps ascending) into an almost existential discussion on cloud types. Amazing!

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

29 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

This is descending (or perhaps ascending) into an almost existential discussion on cloud types. Amazing!

Ah man, this is nothing but entertaining at this point.  I do enjoy watching people cling tenaciously to a position that has no hope of being supported though... "flattened cumulus."  😁

[icewater5 181]

Seems people are very defensive about their own personal cloud preferences ... who knew who knew?

Edited April 20, 2022 by icewater5

[KERNEL32 512]

9 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Ah man, this is nothing but entertaining at this point.  I do enjoy watching people cling tenaciously to a position that has no hope of being supported though... "flattened cumulus."  😁

A tire is a tire, until it is flat. Then it's a flattened tire. Now let's make an argument how we're talking about a cloud not a tire. 

It's a game, and it's only got cumulus puffs to work with so "Understand this", I'll call it what I want, and that is a flattened cumulus puff.

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

24 minutes ago, KERNEL32 said:

A tire is a tire, until it is flat. Then it's a flattened tire. Now let's make an argument how we're talking about a cloud not a tire. 

It's a game, and it's only got cumulus puffs to work with so "Understand this", I'll call it what I want, and that is a flattened cumulus puff.

A cumulus cloud is a cumulus cloud until it is flat... then it's a stratus cloud. 

THAT is the reality of our language.  You certainly can use any words in any order you'd like for anything, but probably shouldn't be surprised or offended when people point out they're incorrect...

[him225 51]

Makes me want to ask the same question when looking at the offline air traffic. They have inherited the scenery and other aspects from the fsx engine moving forward, yet for some reason they seem to have mostly abandoned the already believably well functioning fsx offline AI system rather than improving on it and gone several years back to start reinventing the wheel? Looking at the traffic doing clunky motion in the sky and airport with ludicrous turns, jerky acceleration and touchdowns, it is so disappointing and immersion breaking which no third party addon can fix. One of the main things holding me back from moving to msfs from p3d in any foresight. Even when study level aircraft is released, p3d with its dated graphics would still offer overall better environment than this fs2000isk populated AI that has been more or less the same level since msfs released.

[Cpt_Piett 4,898]

AI traffic is a bit of a joke atm. More like a placeholder for (hopefully) something to come in the near (hopefully) future. Best to try to ignore it - or if it ruins immersion (which it does) - turn it off. 

My bet is that a 3rd party dev like JustFlight or similar will release an AI traffic package before Asobo updates their current stuff. 

[mrueedi 702]

Summary of this thread...

This does not look like a dog, it does not have the characteristics of a dog, but as it must be a dog, it is a bad dog. And one from 1997 🙂:

 

9 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

The clouds in MSFS are ground breaking and can produce some amazing experiences, but I think it is pretty safe to say it only produces accurate (when not ash clouds) cumulus types of clouds.

And what is this?

So, no, it is not safe at all to say, that MSFS only produces accurate cumulus types of clouds.

[flying_carpet 672]

Meanwhile I ran out of popcorn - literally, not the clouds form 😄.