FSLabs and Fenix Sim Airbus A320's.

[pmplayer 9,620]

3 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

 

If people find the FBW bus suits there needs and have no wish for more then without question they should not buy the Fenix.

👍👍👍😎

That's well said and to the point - IMO !

 

cheers 😉

[Scottoest 1,561]

48 minutes ago, MySound said:

Just bought the Fenix and I am on my first flight.

After reading here this should have been mind blowing. But really? Compared to the FBW I could have saved the 60€. I mean it's very nice. But I dont care if I can move the jumpseat or the window. For my personal purpose it diesnt offer much more than the FBW.

What else did you think it offered?

It's a higher fidelity simulation/realization of the actual aircraft.  If that doesn't suit your purpose (which is completely fine - not everyone wants that), then I'm not sure why you bought it to begin with.

[MySound 408]

5 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

What else did you think it offered?

It's a higher fidelity simulation/realization of the actual aircraft.  If that doesn't suit your purpose (which is completely fine - not everyone wants that), then I'm not sure why you bought it to begin with.

Maybe I expected just more after all this hype. Like I said. It’s a very good aircraft. No doubt. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by MySound

[320Driver 63]

37 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

compared to a great majority of actual A320/airbus captains/FO who're also veteran simmers who say this

This is all nice, but to be honest I prefer to judge it by myself. Youtubers and Streamers need viewers, and links like yours spreaded around to get subscrptions and abos. And they often might tell just what their viewers want to hear.  I can only recommend to count on your own judgement, and common sense. Maybe watch real world A320 landings, some of them even have their sidestick in view. Use that for comparison.

And BTW, none of these you mentioned has ever reviewed FSL.

Edited May 21, 2022 by 320Driver

[lwt1971 7,457]

1 minute ago, MySound said:

Maybe I expected just more after all this hype. 

If you're noticing that the differences and above-and-beyonds that the Fenix provides are only the ability to move the jumpseat or the window, then absolutely for your personal purposes you should've stuck with the FBW.

The "hype" is about a tonne of other features and in-depth simulation that the Fenix provides, but that surely can't be appreciated by those who only notice the seat/window movements :)

[2reds2whites 827]

1 hour ago, 320Driver said:

it doesn't seem to be implemented at all. I don't notice the flare mode at all. As @Nyxx has written further above, it actiivates at 50´ and at 30' the aircraft should command a 2° nose down including a transition normal law to direct law. You would then apply back pressure like landing a conventional aircraft.  

You don't seem positive about the aircraft - do you fly the 320 series in real life?

In any case the flare mode is a tricky one. The entire design philosophy is that it shouldn't be noticed at all by a pilot, it just means that you get a proper feeling of flaring against trim. If you land as you're supposed to in an airbus you literally don't know it's there.

Part of the problem with replicating airliner flare handling is that barring the FFS's we use for recurrent training I've never used a sidestick which comes anywhere close to the Airbus. The Thrustmaster one is useless. 

It makes sense when you see how the Airbus sidestick actually works;

 

[lwt1971 7,457]

28 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

And BTW, none of these you mentioned has ever reviewed FSL.

Not really sure if 320simpilot or Into-the-Blue have reviewed FSL before but they sure seem familiar with A320 simulations on all sims... V1 specifically said "the immersion that you get from this airplane is nothing like what you've seen before, you saw a little bit of it with FSLabs".

Also Blackbox 711 (IRL 320 pilot) was a FSL beta tester who left FSL and moved on to Fenix testing, all amicably of course. And he's had similar praise like all these other IRL pilots about the Fenix: https://www.youtube.com/c/Blackbox711/videos 

So ya anyways, of course ultimately we all have to come to our own conclusions... and that certainly seems to have happened for a great number of simmers as evidenced here and elsewhere, including me :)

Edited May 21, 2022 by lwt1971

[ahsmatt7 1,201]

59 minutes ago, MySound said:

Maybe I expected just more after all this hype. Like I said. It’s a very good aircraft. No doubt. 

More means what to you????

lets get away from these passive words and list some things that you expected from it. 
 

 

[RALF9636 1,998]

1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

I remember topic's when people said the Aerosoft Bus was great and wish they had not bought the FSL. Its pointless even pointing out what you know...just smile to yourself I find best. Each to there own as they say. 🙂

If people find the FBW bus suits there needs and have no wish for more then without question they should not buy the Fenix.

 

I thought exactly the same when I read some of these comments here today.

Just like the FSL compared to the Aerosoft Bus in P3D, the Fenix compared to the FBW is so much more than just system depth. People who say they don't need that system depth and stay with the cheaper alternative miss out on so much.

The flight dynamics of the Fenix are the best I experienced so far in a flightsim (and that includes the FSL in P3D). Apparently the Fenix perfectly takes advantage of the new flight model and turbulence system of MSFS. Other than the FBW that more or less seems to fly on rails even in gusty winds, the Fenix gets tossed from side to side and up and down by gusts and turbulence. It's not just that overdone nodding around the center of gravity I have seen from other aircraft in MSFS. The whole aircraft feels floating in the air - the best flying immersion I got so far in MFSF. (And so that people not start to argue again the turbulence in MSFS was generally overdone: the Fenix flies perfectly smooth in smooth air, and reacts to turbulence exactly where you would expect it to).

I just flew a few patterns at GCFV for training purposes. A gusty crosswind coming across the shoreline on final approach made the Fenix shake and roll so that continuous stick input was needed. And that didn't stop at touchdown. If you don't give a stick command towards the wind while decelerating you'll get into trouble. The Fenix needs to be "flown" down on the runway with continuous stick and rudder input to keep it level and on centerline while decelerating. You can really feel and see the gear suspension working. After a few circuits it really got me exhausted with more than just sweaty hands.

I never experienced that before in a flight sim - let alone in the FBW, which just feels "sterile" to me after having flown the living and breathing Fenix. (I remember I said the same years ago about the FSL compared to the AS.)

To be clear, I don't want to belittle the FBW. The FBW-team did a fantastic job providing us with a decent airliner in the early days of MSFS. And for free. I am most grateful for that. But now it's time to move on. I hope they focus on their A380 project now.

 

And btw.: Thanks a lot for your new Walkthrough sheet!

Edited May 21, 2022 by RALF9636

[Fiorentoni 4,376]

2 hours ago, MySound said:

Just bought the Fenix and I am on my first flight.

After reading here this should have been mind blowing. But really? Compared to the FBW I could have saved the 60€. I mean it's very nice. But I dont care if I can move the jumpseat or the window. For my personal purpose it diesnt offer much more than the FBW.

 It was marketed as the systems-wise most in depth aircraft in history, you buy it and then complain that it doesn't fit your purpose, because all you can see is an openable window and a movable jumpseat? That's pathetic. I wonder how some people get along in life.

[320Driver 63]

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

Also Blackbox 711 (IRL 320 pilot) was a FSL beta tester who left FSL and moved on to Fenix testing, all amicably of course. And he's had similar praise like all these other IRL pilots about the Fenix: https://www.youtube.com/c/Blackbox711/videos 
 

Interesting you mention Blackbox 711. Some very recent quotes from his Discord :

"Unfortunately in MSFS2020 there are so many issues lying within the core of the simulator, that you as a customer can’t always pinpoint what is at fault. Is it MSFS or is it the aircraft add-on? "

"And just like you wrote I even commented yesterday how the MSFS has issues regarding flight dynamics, being too exaggerated"

"Without breaking NDA of the FENIX, the issues you have pointed out regarding pitch/power (and Fuelflow), climb/cruise/descent performance values are all areas needing more optimization.

----------------

I can only encourage you and others to remain critical (as he does). And not hyped as many here. That makes blind. And as said before, use common sense (e.g. "would a real 320 behave that way during flare" ?)

It's not a point of badmouthing Fenix, so don't feel offended.  Hopefully the critical comments might make it an even better product in future 

 

And just BTW, look at his landing in the LDDU stream 🙂

Edited May 21, 2022 by 320Driver

[Ramzanovsky 26]

1 hour ago, MySound said:

Maybe I expected just more after all this hype. Like I said. It’s a very good aircraft. No doubt. 

Like what did you expect though?

I understand (and agree) that the FBW is totally fine if you are just a casual simmer or just want to fly the A320 like every once in a while. But if that is the case, why did you buy the Fenix in the first place? I just don't understand what your expectations are here. 

[320Driver 63]

1 hour ago, 2reds2whites said:

You don't seem positive about the aircraft

I am positive about the Fenix, see my initial post in the thread. But there is a difference between just hyped and oversee anything, or being positive but still critical.

If you prefer an "all is good" attitude, then you may do so. I just don't get it how MSFS users just keep ignoring  problems?  When P3D has problems (it did and it does!!), it's the end of the world. But exactly that has lead to many better products. Now with MSFS the simmers landscape sadly has changed to this "all is good", even if it's worse than P3D.

However, interesting video ! Well, I see the flare mode and its need from the pilot perspective. In a conventional aircraft you pull the yoke back and as the nose drops, also as the speed is dropping, you need to keep pulling on the yoke to control the descent till touch down. In Airbus normal law stick out of neutral is a load factor demand. So when you flare by moving the stick back you ask for a load factor and the aircraft starts pitching to give you that, and will continue to pitch as long as the stick is out of neutral. So you will have to keep releasing the stick to neutral after each backward flare movement. This will not work well for the flare, so Airbus came up with the the flare mode where the auto trim stops and from 30' you get that pitch down. The pilot can now maintain steady backward pressure like conventional aircraft and continue to land. That's all about it.

The Fenix does currently not reflect that. It just doesn't feel like an A320 at that point.

Edited May 21, 2022 by 320Driver

[lwt1971 7,457]

5 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

I can only encourage you and others to remain critical (as he does). And not hyped as many here. That makes blind. And as said before, use common sense (e.g. "would a real 320 behave that way during flare" ?)

It's not a point of badmouthing Fenix, so don't feel offended.  Hopefully the critical comments might make it an even better product in future 

Oh not to worry, we're all capable of making our own judgements and remain critical, and especially for those of us who've used other sims and now MSFS, with what we've seen in the latest crop of properly implemented aircraft making MSFS match in aerodyamics/handling/systems to its prowess in visuals... And I really don't think one can call these IRL pilots and veteran simmers praising Fenix/MSFS to be "hyping" or "blind", unless maybe if one is a FSL/P3D acolyte :)

Not at all offended, and I hope you won't be as well when we don't give much credence to whatever you have to say when you start to post on a Fenix/FSL thread with https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/619324-fslabs-and-fenix-sim-airbus-a320s/?do=findComment&comment=4778849 , and then go on to cherry pick on some negatives re: the Fenix and MSFS  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Those of us who think the Fenix+MSFS combo to be better than FSL+P3D have indeed taken stock of all observations/reviews both positive and negative, and just like with all the IRL pilot experts (including Blackbox 711), the overall experience, with the current negatives accounted for (oh and the Fenix is just 2 days old) is top notch and indeed most realistic and immersive.. when it comes to flight model, aerodynamics & handling, systems, visuals, sounds, etc.  I used P3D for a couple of years, and with properly implemented aircraft in MSFS, P3D pales in comparison when it comes just even to flight dynamics, given its ESP/FSX based flying-on-rails flight dynamics.. funnily enough, its understandable when those who're very used to P3D might think that flight in MSFS is too dynamic.
 

 

[haseen 10]

Thanks a lot friends for your sincere comments!

Haseen Ahmad.