FSL should just go all in the widebody A330/340/380 .  Fenix has the A320 ceo market already and it will only get better. 

1 hour ago, 320Driver said:

Ermmm, I am seeing not authentic display fonts, pitch attitudes of 19deg during initial climb, fuel flows around 800 during cruise, a questionable landing behaviour (AC almost flares itself). Sure this might eventually be fixed with custom flight/engine models in the future. But how on earth can people rate Fenix better at that point ?

Abnormals seem to be more comprehensive in the Fenix, but who has evaluated them all yet ?

Also don't forget the many innovations FSL came up with, e.g. winter operations with first serious icing simulation. I have yet to see this kind of innovations in the Fenix.

Don't get me wrong, the Fenix is a very nice product at that price tag. Just these kind of "Better than..." statements are useless at that point.

Well if you do this, you also should mention all the stuff FSL did not model correctly (systems-wise), which the Fenix does. There were still a quite some simple boolean system simulations with the FSL (icing is one of them, I think, so no idea why you consider this a "serious icing simulation"), where the Fenix models the complete system. I did not evaluate every single abnormal, but I tried several multiple failure simulations and they behaved and interacted (!) dynamically just as I was expecting. On the FSL multiple failures did not interact at all or wrongly.
The Fenix is all-in-all deeper than the FSL. This more than makes up your points, which apart from that can be easily worked on (except for fuel flow).
I agree, however, that there is no sense in saying "it is better", because there is no choice to be made at all, it's two different platforms.

EDIT: I love the FSL and think it's deep enough for any user, so this is more of a theoretical kind of discussion on a very high level. It's like arguing about Gold or Platinum

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by Fiorentoni

Well, let's wait and see if any custom engine/flight model are really possible and will lead to correct these shortcomings. Or are just wishful thinking.

Also let's wait and see what FSLabs comes up with. Beyond their A320, they have always impressed me with innovations and I'm confident they will continue so in future.

And let's wait and see if MSFS continues to develop into a serious airliner simulation. Which it isn't yet, but might be by then.

Then there would be a much better base to do any currently useless "x is better than y" comparisons. Just that was my point.

Lets see FS Labs release a product first in the last 16 months after sharklets and see where they are on P2 I mean P3D.

4 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

Well, let's wait and see if any custom engine/flight model are really possible and will lead to correct these shortcomings. Or are just wishful thinking.

Also let's wait and see what FSLabs comes up with. Beyond their A320, they have always impressed me with innovations and I'm confident they will continue so in future.

And let's wait and see if MSFS continues to develop into a serious airliner simulation. Which it isn't yet, but might be by then.

Then there would be a much better base to do any currently useless "x is better than y" comparisons. Just that was my point.

I think you'd best quit while you're ahead - you're not going to convince the converted.

8 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

Well, let's wait and see if any custom engine/flight model are really possible and will lead to correct these shortcomings. Or are just wishful thinking.

Also let's wait and see what FSLabs comes up with. Beyond their A320, they have always impressed me with innovations and I'm confident they will continue so in future.

And let's wait and see if MSFS continues to develop into a serious airliner simulation. Which it isn't yet, but might be by then.

Then there would be a much better base to do any currently useless "x is better than y" comparisons. Just that was my point.

@Fiorentoni makes some good points about the FSLabs A320:

 

Quote

Well if you do this, you also should mention all the stuff FSL did not model correctly (systems-wise), which the Fenix does. There were still a quite some simple boolean system simulations with the FSL (icing is one of them, I think, so no idea why you consider this a "serious icing simulation"), where the Fenix models the complete system. I did not evaluate every single abnormal, but I tried several multiple failure simulations and they behaved and interacted (!) dynamically just as I was expecting. On the FSL multiple failures did not interact at all or wrongly.
The Fenix is all-in-all deeper than the FSL. This more than makes up your points, which apart from that can be easily worked on (except for fuel flow).

See what happens when you nitpick the FSLabs A320?

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

See what happens when you nitpick the FSLabs A320?

I take it you are enjoying the Fenix. That's just fine 🙂

9 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

@Fiorentoni makes some good points about the FSLabs A320:

 

See what happens when you nitpick the FSLabs A320?

It's almost as if you have an axe to grind against FSLabs..what is the deal? It's starting to seem childish.  That said, I'm a huge FSL fan, flew all their busses, but I'm now quite liking the Fenix in this new sim.

26 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

And let's wait and see if MSFS continues to develop into a serious airliner simulation. Which it isn't yet, but might be by then.

What is missing in MSFS to make it suited for airliner simulation? If people say Fenix is overall better then FSL.

Hello, 

My two cents - I own both. From a day to day flight point of view both are great. 
But it really depends on which simulator your see you will use more in the future as it’s more of an investment in a platform.

The fact is MSFS has a much better visual engine +/- flight engine (depending on how you feel about it using your own set up). P3D has been a great simulator in its day (from around 2008-2020) after FSX had its plug pulled by Microsoft. I was glad there was a platform where there was ongoing active development and improvement. Nevertheless once MSFS came along it was just so much more superior visually. It still has a fair share of issues but hey, all platform does. 

Since MSFS came along - I’ve always maintained both on my computer, with P3D v5 being my “simulator” and MSFS being more of for me to experience a new visual engine. But given the releases in the last month with PMDG 737 and Fenix A320 (I have both), along with what appears to be much anticipated releases of MD82 and BAe 146 (I don’t have these so cannot comment), I have said goodbye to P3D and have not looked back. In fact even prior to release I was much more drawn to the A32NX by the wonderful FBW team which already does a great job in simulating day to day Airbus operations. I went back to P3D maybe 3 times in the last few months to experience the 320/747/777/787 once more from FSlabs/PMDG/QW, but now I’ve said my goodbyes and will look forward to these being developed for MSFS.
 

Cheers,

Chen 

14 minutes ago, Shomron said:

What is missing in MSFS to make it suited for airliner simulation? If people say Fenix is overall better then FSL.

All sorts of visuals completely put aside, it is custom flight and engine model, as was mentioned. No developer could come up with it yet. Flight model related, MSFS Airliners are too responsive and lacking momentum. For my taste !!

Add to that a weather simulation that is guesswork and not suitable for any serious Airliner simulation.

I get a more complete and immersive Airliner flight experience in P3D with Active Sky, Realturb and the like. But immersion is a highly subjective thing, so everyones mileage will vary.

Again, my point was just any comparisons are currently pointless. I have no intention to convert anyone to P3D or MSFS or to Fenix or to FSLabs.

  

31 minutes ago, Bigt said:

It's almost as if you have an axe to grind against FSLabs..what is the deal? It's starting to seem childish.  That said, I'm a huge FSL fan, flew all their busses, but I'm now quite liking the Fenix in this new sim.

Starting? He coming to every possible non MSFS forum (And not just one i.e. x-plane, all of them as well as p3d) to announce how much MSFS and every addon for it is successful and what an X Y Z YouTube captain said like a walking promotion around here for the last 2 years was not enough? 

*Yes I'm aware of my "irony" in the MSFS forum but I genuinely tried and used it unlike others who admit to not use anything else (which 100% fine!) but still plague other sub forums in here that it almost seems done for salary.

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by mtaxp

Hard to say, it wil mainly depends if you can spend $60 now.

The Fenix A320 is really a nice product and the price is very good for what it offers from day one.

We don't know much about fslabs. Their A320 could arrive in the next few months or in 12 months, even later... or maybe may never comes.

In fact, Fenix is a serious contender and fslabs might need to be way better in a large margin to make people spend again for it after having bought the Fenix. One thing is sure now, it will be extremely difficult for fslabs to come with an A320 and ask $149.99 for it like they did with the P3D version.

I assume many Fenix buyers will stay with this aircraft and won't spend more. For all those reasons, it remains to be seen if it is smart for fslabs to work on an A320 now. It could be better to start working on the A330 right now.

So if you have $60 now, buy the Fenix, you won't regret it anyways.

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by sdirand

I was a big follower of FSLabs since the FSX Concorde days, and also enjoyed their A320 in FSX and P3D. But their refusal to even acknowledge the existence of MSFS and continue plugging new releases for P3D for the past year or so was a huge mistake in my opinion. My guess is they won't sell very many A320s for MSFS, they are far too late to the party, and after the month we've just had of incredible MSFS releases, sales of P3D aircraft is going to tank too - especially since they're also priced at such a premium. Why would you pay more for an aircraft for a last generation sim?

Edited May 21, 20224 yr by Tom Wright

1 hour ago, Shomron said:

What is missing in MSFS to make it suited for airliner simulation? If people say Fenix is overall better then FSL.

For the simulation aspect I'd say historical weather, WX radar capability, WASM communication-with-the-internet-ability and some other minor stuff I don't remember. For the immersion aspect we def need GSX and above all an AI traffic that is not braindead.
But it's really not that far off anymore from what I'm used to in P3D. (In other aspects like visuals and weather depiction it's of course lightyears ahead, but we were talking about what's missing)