I'm no Musk fan but I think he is right ordering his workers back to the office.

Letting workers work at home during the pandemic was the right thing to do.  But now that it is not as serious as it was returning to work, for engineers especially, is right.

When I was in engineering having a resource like fellow engineers was very valuable.  If I was having a problem with a digital circuit I was designing walking a few cubicles down to another engineer for help was a valuable resource.  Not a readily available resource when you are working from a computer at home.  Part of engineering is the exchange of ideas and talking about problems.  Computing from home doesn't have that.

Good for you Elon.

Noel

Right or wrong it's his company. I'm no rabid right-winger and a paid worker myself, but sometimes get the feeling that employees seem to forget that.

 

But I agree with you. It's surprising how many new ideas hatch out in the coffee room. 

BMW disagree aparently, and so do other companies who are quite happy to retain the hybrid working system.

 

6 hours ago, birdguy said:

When I was in engineering having a resource like fellow engineers was very valuable.  If I was having a problem with a digital circuit I was designing walking a few cubicles down to another engineer for help was a valuable resource. 

 

Don't forget though, modern technology recreates the same scenario remotely. Zoom and all that stuff makes sharing ideas remotely and solving your problem with another engineer almost as easy as face to face interaction. 

Car companies have remained just as innovative and productive despite working in a hybrid environment it seems to me.

My daughter works in the office but has remote meetings one on one and with other directors and staff in various places in the UK every day. Works fine. Finance not engineering, but they deal with all manner of problem solving issues, just as engineers do.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by martin-w

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

I'm no Musk fan but I think he is right ordering his workers back to the office.

I am a Musk fan and I completely agree.

It's time for the remote work to end.  I can't get into it here because of the severe restrictions on discussion topics, but the remote work thing is not just about the pandemic or convenience.  There's a much bigger agenda.

Dave

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

My daughter works in the office but has remote meetings one on one and with other directors and staff in various places in the UK every day. Works fine. Finance not engineering, but they deal with all manner of problem solving issues, just as engineers do.

Yes, but this isn't remote work per se.  She actually goes to the office.  I'm all for reducing unnecessary and wasteful travel to meetings and conferences.

Dave

I prefer one on one in person or even with several persons.

Design reviews where you have finished and then have the design reviewed by several other engineers.  Back and forth as to whys and 'how would you do it differently?' questions are better understood face to face than remotely.

But I'm an old geezer and do not easily accept new technology as the younger generations do.  I think in the same room person to person meetings and discussions and conversations are better than talking heads on a screen.

Noel

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Yes, but this isn't remote work per se.  She actually goes to the office.  I'm all for reducing unnecessary and wasteful travel to meetings and conferences.

Dave

 

True Dave. But I was replying to Noel who said it was advantageous to communicate face to face with someone in the office. I was pointing out that with modern technology you can do just that. In seconds you can be talking face to face with a colleague wherever they are located. She does that daily.

During the pandemic she did work exclusively from home, along with the rest of her colleagues in the office. They were just as productive. Although she does tell me that, personally, she prefers to be in the office, in that atmosphere. She used to tell me off for blowing my nose downstairs and being generally noisy while she was in a virtual meeting. 😀

 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

I prefer one on one in person or even with several persons.

Design reviews where you have finished and then have the design reviewed by several other engineers.  Back and forth as to whys and 'how would you do it differently?' questions are better understood face to face than remotely.

 

You can do all that remotely now Noel. In fact its even better because you can share each others PC screens without moving from your chair.  It really is impressive what you can do remotely. 

Yes they need to get back to more productive work. I am a huge fan of Musk, Bezos, Bill Gates. From right to left politically but all are worth more than most career politicians who really were lawyers and have far less ability to manage anything.  Musk knows what he is talking about, and is a guy who can work wonders.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by Fielder

1 hour ago, SKEWR said:

 

Here's my real life story. For reference.

 

 

We aren't supposed to be talking about a certain virus and aspects of it. You might want to edit before the topic gets locked.

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

without moving from your chair

Following the 'I don't need no friggin' exercise' theme?

I liked to walk around and just see what other people are doing.

"You don't have to get out of your chair" is an anathema to me.  We're just going to be like robots?

I loved to ski when I was young but you can probably get an app for that now and do it while sitting in your chair.  The same with hunting and fishing.  I'll bet they already have games for that.

Life without getting out of your chair!  How wonderful!

Noel

The amount of time wasted on travel, often transatlantic, to discuss face to face with someone something that could have been done on the telephone was astronomical.
With the advent of the internet, unless the "meeting" is of a crucial nature and perhaps even then, an online version is just as effective, faces can still be read and the atmosphere of the meeting can still be felt.
An online meeting can also be held at the drop of a hat, since all the participants do not need to travel anywhere or to conform to time zones.
All they have to do is to switch on a PC, laptop, tablet or mobile phone and the meeting is in progress.

I recently went on a one-day course in person, having previously done five similar courses online, when we were not allowed to meet and the online courses were every bit as good and lively as the face to face ones but without the travel, parking, meals and so on that make the working day go on longer than it needs to.

It's not really a new concept, look how Concorde's business evaporated when security concerns focussed minds on the actual need to travel by air.
It's fine to be rooted in the past, I am no spring chicken myself, but because something is new(ish) and different does not mean that it cannot be a better way than the one that was used throughout an earlier and now ended working life.

On an environmental note, something that we should all be concerned about, the immediate drop in pollution that followed the ceasing of all types of travel seems to have been quickly forgotten in the pursuit of personal gratification and unnecessary air and sea travel is once again being heavily promoted. It seems that we will not learn from our mistakes until it is far too late and probably even as the world turns to ashes, there will be those who campaign for a return to the good old days.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by Reader

18 hours ago, birdguy said:

When I was in engineering having a resource like fellow engineers was very valuable.  If I was having a problem with a digital circuit I was designing walking a few cubicles down to another engineer for help was a valuable resource.

I miss the old days where I and other engineers had to spend several hours a day commuting to and from work, where our time, fuel and wear and tear were entirely uncompensated. We then arrived in a workplace whose layout and equipment was not of our choosing and usually designed around cutting costs rather than increased productivity, for the entire purpose of being available that someone could interrupt us while we were attempting to concentrate on our own hard problems to solve. Life was so much better then!

3 hours ago, dave2013 said:

remote work thing is not just about the pandemic or convenience.  There's a much bigger agenda.

Does it involve George Soros, a former Secretary of State and the Masons? Inquiring minds want to know.

I manage a team of engineers across multiple states. Our productivity is significantly higher than it was a few years ago, and more importantly we have access to a much larger talent pool than before. We are no longer limited by our geographic area (not just the Atlanta metro, but places with a decent commute to our former office) and our recruiting staff actively targets companies who are announcing return to the office policies. We usually get a good response rate from very good people. In an economy where skilled engineers are a valuable resource and not a commodity, I want to go on the record by asking my competition to alienate them.

It's a free market. Companies can do what they wish, but so can skilled workers.

To be honest, if anything rural, depopulating red states should be pushing WFH as hard as they can. Almost none can sustain a tech ecosystem large enough to have a large base of skilled workers to draw from (and they're not making things easier these days!), and people who choose to work there should be the biggest proponents of WFH. Otherwise you're going to hear that great big sucking sound as other states pull away highly educated graduates as soon as they have a degree and enough money to rent a U-Haul.

Cheers!

3 minutes ago, Luke said:

I miss the old days where I and other engineers had to spend several hours a day commuting to and from work, where our time, fuel and wear and tear were entirely uncompensated. We then arrived in a workplace whose layout and equipment was not of our choosing and usually designed around cutting costs rather than increased productivity, for the entire purpose of being available that someone could interrupt us while we were attempting to concentrate on our own hard problems to solve. Life was so much better then!

May I say, very well expressed and clearly based upon experience, rather than preconception.
Another "benefit" of the physical travel to work is the necessity to buy or rent a home or temporary accommodation in the most expensive and usually overcrowded parts of the country of residence.
Working from home means the ability to live where the worker chooses, subject only to a good internet connection and a supply of electricity and thus benefits not only the worker but their family.
For anyone who can, it must be a win-win. 
As a semi-retired lorry (truck) driver, I have not yet found a way to work from home and good luck to those who can.