As a follow-on to my first They Live post, I wanted to pass along a couple of others I've been enjoying a lot.

David Maltby's BAC-111

I'll admit it. I've always turned my nose up at freeware. Why bother with some amateurish effort when you can fly a polished payware airplane? This one proves how stupid that attitude is. So, the graphics are "dated?" There is so much to this project that I stopped noticing the retro 2D look after about five minutes. In fact, I think the photoreal collage of gadgets works exceptionally well in this early jet. Why have I uninstalled Just Flight's slowpoke One Eleven and flown the heck out of this DMFS classic? I think "rewarding" is the best single word answer.

The One Eleven's design is a bit eccentric by modern standards, but once you get your head wrapped around the logic, it just works. One example is engine overheating. We don't worry much about that with more modern jets but abuse those low-bypass Speys and they'll flat quit on you. Hot, high take-offs, or--horrors--hot and high, mean you're going to have to do some serious babysitting. Don't worry. Depending on the model, the One Eleven gives you the medicine you need for baby's frequent fevers. Like "top temp" (which won't let you jam the throttles forward) to a refreshing shower of cool water for overheated engines! Automation is simple and work-intensive but reliable (like any 60s jet) or sophisticated and reliable in the 510ED, which will even do an autoland! (Of course, it's all radio navigation.)

It even has unexpected amenities like a chinagraph that gives you your speeds when you click on it. Same for your 100% power rating given takeoff conditions. (Remember, very important for temperature-sensitive engines.)

Aside from the "dated" graphics (again, a non-issue for me) the only thing that bothered me was squishy suspension. Don't know the reason there, but if you have A2As Accu-Feel, it's easy to stiffen it so I don't have to worry about scraping a wingtip. Plus, you can add rattles and squeals to reflect an old jet that was still in hush-kitted service into the 21st century. There are also many liveries available, equally dated, of course, but some very pretty. (I even learned little Air Illinois out of my home airport KMDH flew two of these old Britjets in the 80s. Amazing where they turned up.) They are perfect for those classic British inclusive tours holiday destinations in the Med. Wherever you fly, the DMFS BAC One Eleven will reward good captains and punish the bad and there's never a dull moment.  I created an FSSpotlights file to cure the "nuke in the cockpit" effect of turning on the landing lights. (A vice not limited to freeware, by the way) and wound up using every lamp available. Personally, I think it looks better at night than a lot of payware now. Currently my very favorite airplane.

Just Flight VC10 Professional

Despite a "Battlefield Earth" movie reference below, I like this one and can give a qualified endorsement.

I took a flyer on this v4 airplane and couldn't even get it to load in v5. But several months later, I redownloaded it and reinstalled and it works fine in 5.2. (A qualified "fine" as you'll see). I have no explanation and can't make any promises. I asked JF about it and just got one of their cryptic shrugs. I hope for the sake of their 747 classic I'm wrong, but it seems they're so over P3D.

The VC10 was another brilliant "failure" that has--much like the L1011--retained legendary status despite a lack of economic success. It was a fast but rugged design suited for Her Majesty's far-flung airports for which the 707 and DC-8 were too fastidious. That explains the curious engine mounting, monster truck tires, short stocky legs and iconic enormous T-tail. But during its relatively short heyday it got a lot of use by BOAC and BA all over the world. It famously held the subsonic transatlantic crossing record into the 21st century.

So how does Just Flight's version measure up? About like you would expect from their "Professional Line." I'm not really damning it with faint praise, just calibrating expectations. It's gorgeous inside and out and flies well. Like its little One Eleven cousin more favorably reviewed above, things seem a bit weird at first, and it took me quite a bit of test piloting before I was confident. I won't say "study," because the manual is skimpy. More like Jonnie teaching himself to fly a Harrier in Battlefield Earth. There are two useful tutorials, one from Heathrow to Prestwick that uses radio navigation, then a second leg to Montreal featuring the INS. Unsurprisingly for JF, the engineer's panel remains an intriguing mystery box. I could never get it started using the published procedure, so it's CTL-E for me. Since everything except pumping the yoke was handled by the engineer or navigator, that doesn't bother me too much. (The engineer even has his own throttle quadrant.) I would like to manage the fuel, but the manual's no help, and I can't make sense of things like why the fuel from the fin tank gets used despite fuel cocks closed and pumps off. There's an "automatic fuel management" feature, though. So, the engineer is back there doing his own thing and doesn't want me messing with his stuff. Fair enough, I guess.

I could complain that I'd expect more for the price, except I'm estopped because it's not supported in v5. If it's the same in v4, I suppose I would complain a bit. Maybe it's all hunky dory in v4, or others have solved the mysteries. In any case, none of this stops me from liking it a lot.

Once you figure out how to use the autopilot to defeat the Psychlos--I mean fly to Prestwick--the INS is a pretty standard representation and works as expected for a lighter version. I was a little disappointed that it does not model DME updating, which is a step backwards from their TriStar. There is a way to keep your API down by punching some buttons for any VOR that's part of your plan, which is a bit lame. But coupled with a lack of fuel management (at least as far as I can figure out) there's not a lot to do in cruise except update your nine INS waypoints once or twice, depending on the length of your route. A word about that automation. It's tricky, and the automatic throttle seems too laggy to keep up with any but the most gentle changes. Treated gingerly, it will level off at a set altitude and speed. But I turn the thing off a lot of the time, especially on descent, when it doesn't seem to want to go to idle. Maybe this is all realistic. Personally, I think airspeed is too important to trust to automation at all times. What does seem odd is the anemic climb, but, again, I'm no expert. Let's just say I crashed a lot of VC10s before I learned better.

It comes with the usual JF apron toys, but GSX is also an option with two caveats: watching a GSX stair roll up to the rear door just behind those gorgeous swept wings is harrowing, and there's no working service doors. Solution: map it for your catering truck anyway and cover your eyes.

In the end, it all works and I enjoy it. In fact, it's my go-to long-haul airplane now. After all the negatives I've mentioned, why?

It's one of the most beautiful airliners ever made, in my opinion, and there's certainly no objections to the way it JF made it look or the number of liveries included. It's a fascinating piece of history, and I'm a sucker for classic jets. And it's as fast as it looks. Without it, I probably would never have been motivated to learn just how big Africa really is or how cool the green strip of the Nile looks from 38,000 feet or research a colorful chapter in aviation history. (Imagine being in a flight crew and having regular layover poolside drinks with Idi Amin.) Because hit instant replay after landing, hop into the tower, and you won't find a cooler show.

So, with fewer options for P3D, discovering what still works is important (for me at least). Here's a couple of British classics--one with short legs and another with long--and one of them won't even cost a dime. I'm very happy to have both.

 

The BAC 111 is a DIY job. You need the original DBM BAC 1-11 you can get that at HJG (along with some nice liveries) then you need the FSX/P3D update and conversion plus mods from Bjoern (https://sites.google.com/site/fsxstuffbybk/aircraft-modifications/bac-1-11) If you want there is a good Spey sound package about by Benetion. Then you just have to put it together following Bjoerns instructions. All works beautifully in P3DV5. In depth systems and 1960;s automation logic so read the manuals. Rediscovering this one has been great fun and it is an aeroplane to keep you honest and involved. 

 

The JF/AH VC10 available at the usual places if you do not have it. Again another superb aeroplane from another era. 

If you want button pushing EFIS computer automated flight ala more modern Airbus and Boeings then this won't do it for you but for sheer fun and pleasure of simming they are both very good.

All I can add to Msr Capps insights and post.

Edited July 12, 20223 yr by coastaldriver

3 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

All I can add to Msr Capps insights and post.

Well, the BAC was your idea 🙂 Thanks, buddy! And thanks for filling the missing information on the One Eleven.

 

Edited July 13, 20223 yr by Tim_Capps

Thanks for the kind words Tim.

Just in case anybody was wondering - here is the view from the drivers seat in P3D. About 90% of the systems, switches etc all work the only ones that do not work or are switchable as DM said when he first released it - they don't do anything and are not relevant to the overall VC except for a bit of knob twiddling!

Anyway still down and out with the dreaded flu bug so back to bed for me - no simming at the moment. 

 

 

My favorite classic jet are now Dassault Mercure! although made for FSX, it works in P3Dv4 with just 2 dll swap, not sure on v5 but it should be OK I guess?

The only problem is dynamic landing light will lit up cockpit at night, I use FSLsoptlight to make it workable at night, but it's just a totally enjoy on the daylight!

Passengers boarding BAC One Eleven's integral stairs.

VC10 landing at Montreal.

Interesting that you got the VC10 Professional to work in v5, I just attempted installing it into 5.3 and doesn't seem to load past 5%, so I guess there's no reviving it in my case. I do wish JF would support it a bit more, particularly as it never functioned for me properly even in v4, but I've had it written off for a long time now.

Now the David Matelby 111 I am seriously tempted to take a look at, I flew his models a whole bunch in FSX, particularly the Comet 4, so I might give that a try.

2 hours ago, SimeonWilbury said:

I just attempted installing it into 5.3 and doesn't seem to load past 5%,

The only variable in my scenario was that I redownloaded it from SimMarket. I don't think the difference between v5.2 and v5.3 should make a difference, but who knows? Sorry it didn't work for you. There may be mods that address this.

I loved Dave Maltby's BAC 111 in FS9. I'm pretty sure that I had the CIVA INS installed for long range nav. Does the CIVA INS work in P3D4.5 and maybe higher?

1 hour ago, cowpatz said:

Does the CIVA INS work in P3D4.5 and maybe higher?

Pretty sure the answer is no, unfortunately. 

39 minutes ago, Tim_Capps said:

Pretty sure the answer is no, unfortunately. 

Actually I think it might work.

https://www.simufly.com/ins/features.html

Not sure if the ADEU will work though (allows  flightplan storage of up to 9 waypoints). Saves having to manually enter them.

I have CIVA INS works in P3Dv4, but somehow prone to CTD, so I went to GTN750 anyway... that's... quite not classical then..

8 hours ago, C2615 said:

I went to GTN750 anyway... that's... quite not classical then..

You can find pictures of GPS in a lot of old airplanes--Aeroplane Heaven even has the option of adding Reality XP into their C-46 and I have watched Ice Pilots! (I have to admit it is awesome in the Dassault Falcon, though.) EAL did have GPS retrofitted into their One Elevens, but they were text only (no map) and I don't know if they were connected to the autopilot or not. I suspect it was a regulatory thing and convenient, but radio navigation was still the primary means of getting around. That would be an interesting mod. I have read where even INS equipped airplanes used radio navigation when they could.

The Total Overhaul Mod for the Captain Sim 737-200 does include an option to install the GTN750 where the weather radar is, and if you have the RealityXP the installer will do it for you! (My cargo versions have been retrofitted with that option.)

If the CIVA INS from SimuFly were 100% in v5 that would be interesting indeed, but I don't have the technical skills to do more than a straightforward gauge swap. It would be a great option for many planes that used them. Little guys like the One Eleven, though, aren't going to be out of range of a VOR (at least for very long) and it's probably less of a hassle to tune radios than fool with an INS on short routes. As always, to each his own.  But I'll probably download the 64 bit version and see what mischief I can get up do some day when I'm bored.

Edited July 14, 20223 yr by Tim_Capps

On 7/13/2022 at 6:48 AM, SimeonWilbury said:

Interesting that you got the VC10 Professional to work in v5, I just attempted installing it into 5.3 and doesn't seem to load past 5%, so I guess there's no reviving it in my case. I do wish JF would support it a bit more, particularly as it never functioned for me properly even in v4, but I've had it written off for a long time now.

I feel I may have to eat just a tiny bit of, erm, crow after a qualified recommendation of Just Flight's VC10, but let's call it a clarification. The reason it seems as if people are talking about two different airplanes is because, well, they are. I was talking about the Professional version, which does indeed get a lot of things right, as described, and which did--except for the startup--work fine in P3Dv5.2. Maybe I'm just lucky. After banging my head on the Flight Engineer's table for days trying to figure out why I had to suffer the indignity of using CTL-E, along with some very unhelpful "support" exchanges with Just Flight (Follow the tutorial. Follow the tutorial.) I finally figured out (thanks to some people who do not work for Just Flight) that apparently the electrical system, at least in v5, is flat-out bugged, while the standard version is not. The standard version starts fine and works as one would expect for a "lite" version, merrily following a flightplan by Doppler navigation or whatever you want to imagine it doing. (That's the navigator's problem, anyway.) It lacks quite a few amenities like an INS, nice, adjustable lighting, call-outs, and better external graphics, but is still respectable. Plus it starts according to Hoyle. The experience from the left seat is nearly identical.

So, as far as I can tell, the Pro looks better and has INS and is generally more polished, but I have to use CTL-E to start it; the standard isn't bugged but doesn't and isn't. Sorry for any confusion.

Edited July 19, 20223 yr by Tim_Capps

15 hours ago, Tim_Capps said:

I finally figured out (thanks to some people who do not work for Just Flight) that apparently the electrical system, at least in v5, is flat-out bugged, while the standard version is not.

Yes, that sounds exactly like the problems I had in V4. For me, it was the DC Electrics (specifically the batteries) that flat out didn't function like they were supposed to, meaning you were stuck with a bunch of red inop lights illuminated and made engine start a complete nightmare without CTRL-E (even when I did manage to start the engines manually I had to CTRL-E afterwards to sort the electrics out).

I raised it with Just Flight Support at least twice back in the day, and I got promised that it would be sent to the developers to look at the second time round (after I sent a video as proof) and heard nothing since then.

Now in fairness, I think the VC10 was one of their aircraft with a large amount of the systems developed by external developers, so I'm not sure if it's entirely their fault that they haven't been able to get them to either solve the electrical issues; although at the same time such a glaring problem really should have been addressed. It is also for a similar reason that I think we haven't (and most likely never will) see official V5 Compatability. Which is a shame, as it's a lovely model with a lot of potential.