Crosswind landing problems

[wiggum 9]

Hi,

so the plane (when on the ground) has a tendency to go "into the wind".

This means: During takeoff -> Opposite rudder

This means during landing -> Opposite rudder

 

But my problem is that after touchdown the plane violently jerks into the wind and i end up 1-3m next to the centerline before i can correct it.

Basically my path looks like this: --_______----------

I already try to hold the rudder and use the ailerons to counter but the jerk on touchdown is just to violent...i probably would need to touch down with full rudder but then the plane is very hard to keep stable during the final approach...

Im just unable to nail it. There is always this violent jerk after touchdown into the wind.

 

Talking about the Cessna Caravan. Any tips?

And how important is it in real life to stay on centerline? Would a touchdown 1-2m left/right be a big deal in real life? Or something that happens all the time when there is crosswind?

Thanks.

Edited October 3, 2022 by wiggum

[jcomm 6,020]

In the caravan, being high wing, you can try to touchdown uncrabing and st the same time using wind wing low.

Other than that an as repeated along various threads, while ASOBO doesn't implement their new ground physics it's going to be that way, although they're making available a few parameters on the cfg to help on between...

[lwt1971 7,464]

59 minutes ago, wiggum said:

Talking about the Cessna Caravan. Any tips?

Hi, have a look at https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/624838-unable-to-take-of-in-crosswind-with-the-cessna-172/?do=findComment&comment=4851921 and the links within for more info/background on the current ground handling issues and improvements provided in SU10 and what's coming post that.  For MSFS default aircraft need to wait until Asobo implements these improvements in each aircraft's flight model, unless you want to get into tinkering with their flight_model.cfg files yourself or use others' updates/mods as discussed on the msfs forum thread(s).

 

[fppilot 4,407]

Since SU10 I seem to be getting thrown around on short final in most aircraft, default, modded, or payware.  Very unnatural.  Seems to me that Asobo has once again overcooked something when attempting to add it, similar to what previously happened with thunder and lightening and with icing to name a couple.  I believe with elements like these Asobo needs to provide sliders for adjustments.

Edited October 3, 2022 by fppilot

[wiggum 9]

Hi,

 

thanks for your answers.

Could you please comment on how "bad" a landing a meter or two left/right the centerline is in real life for a GA plane?

Is it something that an easily happen in crosswind conditions or will pilots always try to nail the centerline because not doing it would be potentionally have consequences?

[ha5mvo 261]

18 minutes ago, wiggum said:

 will pilots always try to nail the centerline because not doing it would be potentionally have consequences?

That’s the goal.

From an airline perspective, technically, you can flunk a check-ride by not doing so; although, in practice, that has never happened as far as I know. In my experience, including the many people I have flown with over the years, hitting the centerline is pretty much a fait accompli. It is an expected outcome, and on the occasion when you miss - as long as it’s not a gross error - nothing much is said about it. Of course, the bigger the plane, the greater the need to adhere to this requirement.

Strong cross-winds can play a part in touching down slightly upwind of the line to give yourself a greater margin for error, but generally speaking, its still SOP to land on the centerline.

In the GA world, where a lot of people are still low-time pilots or students working toward an initial pilot certificate, any landing on the hard surface is a good thing, although I’m sure the instructor will hand out a verbal lashing while pointing out that the centerline is there for a reason!

Oh, and take-offs too! You didn’t mention that in your question, but maintaining the centerline on TO is also a required technique, especially so for large transport category airplanes. Wandering away from the centerline prior to lift-off negates the parameters for terrain clearance for the TO segment of flight from the runway charts established for that purpose. These charts guarantee obstacle clearance (single engine) for the first segment of climb which includes the TO roll. In fact, for these large airplanes, maintaining the centerline on TO is more important than doing so for the landing. You can and will flunk a checkride for lack of centerline control on TO!

[jcomm 6,020]

2 hours ago, wiggum said:

Hi,

 

thanks for your answers.

Could you please comment on how "bad" a landing a meter or two left/right the centerline is in real life for a GA plane?

Is it something that an easily happen in crosswind conditions or will pilots always try to nail the centerline because not doing it would be potentionally have consequences?

I'm really far from being the best example in as far as landing on the centreline, or following it, is 🙂

As a glider pilot, and in some gliders more than in others, and when operating on narrow / short paved runways under x-wind I really have to land on the downwind side of the runway and try to stay there while I have enough speed for rudder authority because as soon as speed bleeds off and the rudder is no longer active enough, my glider is going to head into the wind and try to exit the runway upwind 🙂

Surely different from someone landing an airliner...

Edited October 3, 2022 by jcomm

[ha5mvo 261]

4 minutes ago, jcomm said:Surely different from someone landing an airliner...

Yes, different story for gliders and military jets.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

2 hours ago, wiggum said:

 

Could you please comment on how "bad" a landing a meter or two left/right the centerline is in real life for a GA plane?

Given that you really should be landing on the centreline regardless ...  how dangerous landing off the centreline will be will depends on a lot of factors, how wide the hard surface is, condition of the surrounding ground if you have an excursion off the runway, length of the runway and any possible obstacles if you look like running off the runway and need to go around etc etc.

Being 2 metres off the centreline on a wide runway several thousand feet long at a major international airport is not optimal but is also totally different to being 2 metres off the centreline on a narrow runway adjoined by mud and grass and surrounded by trees and  other obstacles, including potentially a bunch of local village children watching you land - especially where a go around is impossible due to obstacles.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[Pathfinder633 224]

19 hours ago, wiggum said:

Hi,

so the plane (when on the ground) has a tendency to go "into the wind".

This means: During takeoff -> Opposite rudder

This means during landing -> Opposite rudder

 

But my problem is that after touchdown the plane violently jerks into the wind and i end up 1-3m next to the centerline before i can correct it.

Basically my path looks like this: --_______----------

I already try to hold the rudder and use the ailerons to counter but the jerk on touchdown is just to violent...i probably would need to touch down with full rudder but then the plane is very hard to keep stable during the final approach...

Im just unable to nail it. There is always this violent jerk after touchdown into the wind.

 

Talking about the Cessna Caravan. Any tips?

And how important is it in real life to stay on centerline? Would a touchdown 1-2m left/right be a big deal in real life? Or something that happens all the time when there is crosswind?

Thanks.

Im curious as to how you are flying the approach, if there is significant crosswind then to keep aligned with the runway centreline on final there are 2 main methods 1: the Crabbed approach where you point your nose  into wind whilst tracking the centreline, which requires a quick decrab just before touchdown or 2: the wing down method where you lower the into wing wing and apply opposite rudder to track the centreline, depending on strength in strong crosswinds this of course means you land on one wheel.

Which method do you use?

[wiggum 9]

Thanks.

Tried it again today.

10 knots crosswind.

Staying aligned with the runway centerline while on short final is not the problem. But i feel even at 90 knots on the runway threshold (i idle then) i float far too long ("ground effect") and at this point im mostly 1 Meter at least left/tight of the centerline and in the second i touch down there is a violent jerk into the wind which can only be controled (barely) by full opposite rudder. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by wiggum

[wiggum 9]

SOrry, double post

Edited October 5, 2022 by wiggum

[RandallR 450]

This particular aircraft is really sensitive to crosswinds (as they are currently set up in the sim) and when it contacts the ground the inappropriate ground physics make it worse.  I use the following steps - your approach may be different.

I shoot crosswinds as I did in the real world:

• Crab on final to hold the center-line with wings level and nose off to the windward side
• Approach speed of 80-85 knots (78 over the threshold on a short field)(all of this from the POH)
• Just before touch-down go to forward-slip (rudder the nose to the center-line and drop the windward wing)
• Land on the windward wheel
• Drop the other wheel, brake and hold the nose down
• Keep applying windward aileron if the wind is strong on roll-out and taxi

Now, this works properly for me about 50% of the time - the other 50% the MS/ASOBO improper crosswind and ground physics will try to throw you off the runway.  I've found that I have to mash the brakes and get speed below 10 knots and that it may also take a lot of rudder to stay on the runway.  Once slowed down the aircraft will usually handle normally again.

Basically, until MS/ASOBO resolves these issues don't consider missing the center-line or maintaining it a big sin.  In fact, I did 80% of my RW flying off a wide turf field where we had no center-line at all.  You used whatever part of the strip worked best for you that day.  Also, in the Spring, when the center of the runway was a deep mud puddle, that was the last place you wanted to touch down.  🙂
 

[TrafficPilot 121]

1 hour ago, wiggum said:

But i feel even at 90 knots on the runway threshold (i idle then) i float far too long ("ground effect") 

You're at the runway threshold at 90 knots in which aircraft?

You have read the POH for the Cessna Caravan haven't you? 

If not your answer lies there.

Hint: vREF 🙂

Edited October 5, 2022 by TrafficPilot

[Bobsk8 12,879]

On 10/3/2022 at 4:27 PM, wiggum said:

Hi,

 

thanks for your answers.

Could you please comment on how "bad" a landing a meter or two left/right the centerline is in real life for a GA plane?

Is it something that an easily happen in crosswind conditions or will pilots always try to nail the centerline because not doing it would be potentionally have consequences?

When I had a really strong crosswind, I would move my aiming point to the upwind side of the centerline, to give me a bit more wiggle room in case I started to drift during the flare, and couldn't correct it with the ailerons. I would also try and touchdown with the upwind main gear first. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Bobsk8