PMDG (again)

[NismoRR 191]

4 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

The only reason I can see to avoid the 600 would be if you want cargo/bizjet as well - then it's 700/800..

 

The way I look at it, the cheap price tag of the -600 gets me in the door. If my interest in airlines continues, I’d have a lot of options down the road. Home base is KLAS so wouldn’t mind doing airline flights in and out of town. Seems like just about everyone who flies the PMDG planes really likes them, and as I said, I want to see what all the love is about. 

[F737MAX 5,740]

24 minutes ago, NismoRR said:

Never had a PMDG and want to try it out. The 737-600 for $35 seems like a perfect entry for me. Alpine, are all/most of your issues related to slew mode? What do you guys think of starting in a -600? 
Looking for something trouble free with minimal bugs. Appreciate your opinions. 

16 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

I know of plenty flying the 600 with no issues, and even if there are PMDG are not a release and run away company, so you would expect multiple patches.

The only reason I can see to avoid the 600 would be if you want cargo/bizjet as well - then it's 700/800..

For casual airliner use, there is zero need to spend double the amount on a -700 or -800 over the -600.
-600 has 4,500 NM range which is plenty, unless you desperately want to do long-haul bizjet flights.

 

5 minutes ago, NismoRR said:

Seems like just about everyone who flies the PMDG planes really likes them, and as I said, I want to see what all the love is about

The love for them is that they are the only decent developer of a Boeing airliner in MSFS right now, plus they generated a lot of goodwill over the past two decades or so from their former industry-leading and very high standards.
For $35, you can't go wrong.
 

Edited November 3, 2022 by F737MAX

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

25 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I'm interested in the difference between this and the fail ops annunciations as I've never selected that in the PMDG.

I haven't either and don't know the details 😉.  I think you'll get a "Land3" annunciation instead of CMD, and so I guess probably no Flare armed annunciation either as that would be assumed by the Land3?  But I really don't know. Try it and report back!  😁

Another thing I *think* but am not sure of, is that fail operational includes a 3rd autopilot axis that allows centerline tracking after touchdown.  On the fail passive systems, you have to disconnect the autopilot after touchdown and rollout manually.  This can buy you a lower RVR requirement for landing, as you don't need as much visual reference during rollout if the autopilot will track centerline.

That RVR requirement difference can be mitigated if you have the HUD though.  If you autoland (or manually land) using the AIII mode of the HUD, it switches into rollout guidance after touchdown, allowing you to track centerline even in very low vis.

Because of the extra cost and equipment involved in a fail operational system, many operators choose fail passive with the HUD.  The HUD is useful in many other ways, and probably still cheaper than maintaining a fail operational system.

Anyway, I'm not certain about some of that, it's just what I've heard. Our fleet is fail passive with the HUD so that's what I know. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Stearmandriver

[JaneRachel 530]

1 minute ago, Stearmandriver said:

I haven't either and don't know the details 😉.  I think you'll get a "Land3" annunciation instead of CMD, and so I guess probably no Flare armed annunciation either as that would be assumed by the Land3?  But I really don't know. Try it and report back!  😁

Another thing I *think* but am not sure of, is that fail operational includes a 3rd autopilot axis that allows centerline tracking after touchdown.  On the fail passive systems, you have to disconnect the autopilot after touchdown and rollout manually.  This can buy you a lower RVR requirement for landing, as you don't need as much visual reference during rollout if the autopilot will track centerline.

That RVR requirement difference can be mitigated if you have the HUD though.  If you autoland (or manually land) using the AIII mode of the HUD, it switches into rollout guidance after touchdown, allowing you to track centerline even in very low vis.

Because of the extra cost and equipment involved in a fail operational system, many operators choose fail passive with the HUD.  The HUD is useful in many other ways, and probably still cheaper than maintaining a fail operational system.

Anyway, I'm not certain about some of that, it's just what I've heard. Out fleet is fail passive with the HUD so that's what I know. 

yes to the above and a LAND3 annunciation 🙂

 

all the best

Jane

[NismoRR 191]

19 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

For casual airliner use, there is zero need to spend double the amount on a -700 or -800 over the -600.
-600 has 4,500 NM range which is plenty, unless you desperately want to do long-haul bizjet flights.

 

The love for them is that they are the only decent developer of a Boeing airliner in MSFS right now, plus they generated a lot of goodwill over the past two decades or so from their former industry-leading and very high standards.
For $35, you can't go wrong.
 

Exactly what I was thinking. Appreciate your input, especially from a guy named F737MAX  with ~3000 likes. 🙃
 

 

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

Thanks Jane! 

One thing worth pointing out that I think is pretty cool (we're using that term very loosely in its most geeky sense here 😁) is that I wouldn't know anything about any of this if it weren't for flight sims and PMDG.  I kid you not, if I asked another pilot at work whether we had a fail passive or operational autoland system, I'd get a blank stare.  "You push these two buttons, we make our callots on the way down, the plane lands itself" would be the approximate response 😉.  Which is good in a sense, as you train people on what they need to know about their fleet and don't clutter their minds with trivia about options that don't apply to their planes... but it's funny to me, just how many options and various configurations are available on these planes that most pilots don't know about. 

Simming is a good way to explore all that. 

[JaneRachel 530]

5 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Thanks Jane! 

One thing worth pointing out that I think is pretty cool (we're using that term very loosely in its most geeky sense here 😁) is that I wouldn't know anything about any of this if it weren't for flight sims and PMDG.  I kid you not, if I asked another pilot at work whether we had a fail passive or operational autoland system, I'd get a blank stare.  "You push these two buttons, we make our callots on the way down, the plane lands itself" would be the approximate response 😉.  Which is good in a sense, as you train people on what they need to know about their fleet and don't clutter their minds with trivia about options that don't apply to their planes... but it's funny to me, just how many options and various configurations are available on these planes that most pilots don't know about. 

Simming is a good way to explore all that. 

Totally agree with you Andrew! I have learnt so much over the years.

I was talking to one of the senior vice presidents at Boeing a couple of years ago. He was talking about all the customisation in the 737 family, comparing to buying a car. Compared to a little car catalogue, he told me that they have shipped hundreds of mods and options, for customers.

[threexgreen 3,160]

8 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

One thing worth pointing out that I think is pretty cool (we're using that term very loosely in its most geeky sense here 😁) is that I wouldn't know anything about any of this if it weren't for flight sims and PMDG.  I kid you not, if I asked another pilot at work whether we had a fail passive or operational autoland system, I'd get a blank stare.

Haha. It's equally cool from a simmer's point of view since I wouldn't know 80% of what I know without flight simming and these addons. Even with the obvious limitations that come with a desktop flight sim software, you can actually teach yourself how to fly specific aircraft down to pretty insane detail - like fail passive and fail operational autoland systems.

I know it would make my day if I explained something to a real pilot about their plane that they never even heard of... but it probably wouldn't make theirs. 

[Cpt_Piett 4,842]

Almost afraid to ask this in a thread with so many knowledgeable folks. I tried to setup for an autoland but was not able to engage both CMD-A and CMD-B. Had ILS set to both NAV 1 and 2 and ILS course set to course at both sides. I must have missed something though. Any ideas?

[SAS443 1,731]

1 hour ago, threegreen said:

I'm interested in the difference between this and the fail ops annunciations as I've never selected that in the PMDG.

LAND 3 announced for CATIIB / Fail-operational

"Rollout"  as armed mode underneath active VOR/LOC, then subsequently as an active mode and AFAIK need some kind of rudder servo-magic aswell

ISFD as third attitude source, complimenting the dual Inertial systems.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by SAS443
totally missed the question was replied to some 20mins ago...

[JaneRachel 530]

6 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Almost afraid to ask this in a thread with so many knowledgeable folks. I tried to setup for an autoland but was not able to engage both CMD-A and CMD-B. Had ILS set to both NAV 1 and 2 and ILS course set to course at both sides. I must have missed something though. Any ideas?

you had APP mode armed first before hitting the other AP?

[Cpt_Piett 4,842]

Just now, JaneRachel said:

you had APP mode armed first before hitting the other AP?

I'm fairly certain I did, yes. I'm watching a tutorial by 737NG Driver to figure out what I missed. 

[jrw4 626]

6 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Almost afraid to ask this in a thread with so many knowledgeable folks. I tried to setup for an autoland but was not able to engage both CMD-A and CMD-B. Had ILS set to both NAV 1 and 2 and ILS course set to course at both sides. I must have missed something though. Any ideas?

Check this video on autoland procedures in the 737 family.

17 minutes well spent. In answer to your question, that CMD B engagement has to be performed at a specific time in the approach. Too early or too late won't work.

[Cpt_Piett 4,842]

1 minute ago, jrw4 said:

17 minutes well spent. In answer to your question, that CMD B engagement has to be performed at a specific time in the approach. Too early or too late won't work.

Thanks. That's the one I'm watching right now. 

[JaneRachel 530]

2 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I'm fairly certain I did, yes. I'm watching a tutorial by 737NG Driver to figure out what I missed. 

come back if you get stuck still. I will help all I can.

all the best

Jane