15 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

.I use Trackir, and have to both center and lock my view forward (key assignment) for take offs and landings. Without the "seat of the pants feel" mentioned by @lupedelupe above, slight Trackir head movement can be mistaken for Heli pitch movement and cause me to make inputs that are not necessary at times (T/O & landings) when those small movements are crucial

I use TIR and have done so since my racing days I called it racing, The Moose called me a Sunday Driver)

As far as I'm concerned the art of helicopter flying is all about muscle memory especially the collective(I have mine so that my HOTAS throttle mimics the on screen) For years my yoke of joystick was heaved around in a fairly non-discriminating fashion. Jump in a chopper and a lot more self control is needed or you are quickly dumped on your roof!

Oh, and I have all helps off and all realist settings as I can get. Using assists is like training a soldier to fight using blanks, it's a huge shock to the system when real lead starts flying! 😃

16 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

 

Interesting...

I use Trackir, and have to both center and lock my view forward (key assignment) for take offs and landings. Without the "seat of the pants feel" mentioned by @lupedelupe above, slight Trackir head movement can be mistaken for Heli pitch movement and cause me to make inputs that are not necessary at times (T/O & landings) when those small movements are crucial.

 

I know exactly what your saying, it's exactly why i couldn't use head tracking in my racing sims. .When driving on the edge of adhesion I couldn't perceive the car movement properly and react in time.  That's where VR makes up for the lack of "seat of the pants"  Your working in a 3D environment.  Moving your head around simply doesn't have the same issues at all. It's incredible how your brain makes you "feel" the movement in VR, without any physical forces actually happening.  It's incomparable to head tracking in 2D 

15 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

 I called it racing, The Moose called me a Sunday Driver

It was harsh.... but fair😂

Great days .

17 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Interesting...

I use Trackir, and have to both center and lock my view forward (key assignment) for take offs and landings. Without the "seat of the pants feel" mentioned by @lupedelupe above, slight Trackir head movement can be mistaken for Heli pitch movement and cause me to make inputs that are not necessary at times (T/O & landings) when those small movements are crucial.

What I'm getting from that is that an IRL pilot would keep his head rigidly pointed forward whilst landing or taking off. No looking around for obstructions or the like? That means, to me, that a 'gaming' technique is being used. Interesting.

VR I'd go along with and as I said I dug out my Rift S but I reckon technology has left me behind and I'm too ancient to do another PC.

This is one of those conversations I'd love to have in a pub over a few pints. 😉

 

1 hour ago, The Moose said:

It was harsh.... but fair😂

Great days .

I did give you a run for your money in rFactor at (Cant remember the name of the circuit but I can still drive it in my head) Lotus Cortina v you in my mirror.

Indeed Great days.

A thought: Can you remember any arguments as to which sim was best? I can't.

4 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

What I'm getting from that is that an IRL pilot would keep his head rigidly pointed forward whilst landing or taking off. No looking around for obstructions or the like? That means, to me, that a 'gaming' technique is being used. Interesting.

Not quite the same...

IRL you have other senses at work to keep you coordinated, including SOP, peripheral vision, eye adjustment to motion, etc.

In the sim, I am limited with respect to my motion cues, therefore, I need to isolate all other factors when landing (final seconds to really land centered in the pad) such that I don't confuse my head motion with Heli motion.

5 hours ago, The Moose said:

That's where VR makes up for the lack of "seat of the pants"  Your working in a 3D environment.  Moving your head around simply doesn't have the same issues at all. It's incredible how your brain makes you "feel" the movement in VR, without any physical forces actually happening.  It's incomparable to head tracking in 2D 

Exactly, I also could not use TIR with car sims and went with 3 screens to better see the apex etc.

I actually thought VR would have the same issues, so I never tried it much outside of drone flying. Hmmm, so now you have me curious about VR.

Edited December 15, 20223 yr by OverTheEDJ

Peripheral vision is on another level in VR, distance can be judged much more accurately, Track IR is tracking inside of a pancake screen box.

I've previously simmed on a 3 screen track ir setup with Nvidia's 3D vision (RIP), and it just doesn't compare to the unique VR experience of virtually being inside of the aircraft in correct size scale with the stereoscopic 3D.

 

Edited December 15, 20223 yr by blueshark747