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They lied to you. They always lie to you. It is what they do.

Historically true in re Flight Sim, but this "war" is quite a bit different than the previous ones...

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MSFS is now in its twilight years, you need to move on, no less than those who clung on for dear life to XP9, XP10 and even XP11 now.

"Prepar3D is now in its twilight years". There, FtfY.

In re MSFS? All evidence is to the contrary.

It's hyperbolic assertions like this that undercut your credibility.

Edited December 18, 20223 yr by UrgentSiesta
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3 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

but this "war" is quite a bit different than the previous ones...

Not really, it doesn't feel any different than FSX users explaining how FSX was/is superior to XP9/10/11 because they made their own flight model.

Most of them are still sticking with ancient tech on ancient hardware as well as far as I can tell.

Edited December 18, 20223 yr by mSparks

53 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

"Yeah we're super happy with it, blessed be CFD"

Very interesting. I didn't know airliners were successfully using it. This not only fully buries the claim that the 'force' element model is 'advanced', but amplifies the elegance of the XP flight model's fidelity and computational efficiency. 

'Blessed' because Ini very clearly admits that they can't match XP with Asobo's 'force' elements alone. That balsa-glider is garbage in, garbage out.

That said, 'airliners and autopilots' (yes, I'm quoting myself) has always been within spitting distance for fs2020. PMDG has been/is proof of that. And the fudge factors involved with reworking the CFD are insane. Irrational and insane. Far from 'advanced'.

I've yet to find an equivalent in fs2020 to @Murmur's work below. Aerobatics is where the FM rubber hits the road.

 

Edited December 18, 20223 yr by blingthinger

11 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

It's hyperbolic assertions like this that undercut your credibility.

one way or another MSFS as paid for in 2020 is in the last throws of its development cycle, one way or another new dev requires new money. For all the good will in the world Asobo cannot keep iterating on it without the income stream to fund it. Maybe MSFS2024 will fare better, then we can start all this yet again.

In the meantime I'm going to be building on and enjoying the best flight sim today, XP12.

over and out.

5 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Very interesting. I didn't know airliners were successfully using it. This not only fully buries the claim that the 'force' element model is 'advanced', but amplifies the elegance of the XP flight model's fidelity and computational efficiency. 

'Blessed' because Ini very clearly admits that they can't match XP with Asobo's 'force' elements alone. That balsa-glider is garbage in, garbage out.

That said, 'airliners and autopilots' (yes, I'm quoting myself) has always been within spitting distance for fs2020. PMDG has been/is proof of that. And the fudge factors involved with reworking the CFD are insane. Irrational and insane. Far from 'advanced'.

I've yet to find an equivalent in fs2020 to @Murmur. Aerobatics is where the FM rubber hits the road.

O.M.G. - we're in agreement!

5 minutes ago, mSparks said:

one way or another MSFS as paid for in 2020 is in the last throws of its development cycle, one way or another new dev requires new money. For all the good will in the world Asobo cannot keep iterating on it without the income stream to fund it. Maybe MSFS2024 will fare better, then we can start all this yet again.

In the meantime I'm going to be building on and enjoying the best flight sim today, XP12.

over and out.

Any actual facts/figures to support yet another hyperbolic claim that flies in the face of all evidence?

They've already laid out a very expensive development roadmap for 2023, including 7 Sim Updates.

All that "iteration" takes capital, and if your other assertions of "30 million users to break even" (lol!) were close to true, we'd see them pumping the brakes on free stuff. They'd already have been talking about shifting content that was previously free to some sort of paid model. 

Maybe that announcement is coming, but again, nothing we do factually know supports the idea in the foreseeable future.

Glad you're sticking with XP, and glad that v12 is (once again) improving upon it's former greatness!

Best flight sim, though and as discussed somewhat ad nauseum, is quite subjective.

E.g., if you're on Linux and you love helos, you're absolutely correct. 🙂

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

End of the day, they were expecting, and spent accordingly, in order to take significant market share from

https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/flight-simulator-market-102592

and "10 million pilots" mostly paying $1 each before cancelling their subscription didn't do that, from any perspective. 

Do you have access to this $5,000 report? Because according to the exec summary, this is all about Big Boy Simulation in support of heavy industry operations.

So much so that the report doesn't include a single mention of any simulator we're discussing, and focuses entirely on "Level D" sims and other large corp solutions.

Based on the overwhelmingly positive general commercial pilot feedback that I'm aware of, I'd be shocked if a commercial version of MSFS isn't already on a fast track to certification.

And as I said previously, I have absolutely zero doubt that it is unofficially being used for official operations (mainly in clandestine activities).

MS already openly does it with M365 (high security, Government-only instances). So while it's still early days, there is precedent...

3 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

They've already laid out a very expensive development roadmap for 2023, including 7 Sim Updates.

I already filed that claim in the same bin as being available on every platform with every button working just like the real thing.

Even if there ends up being any meaningful truth to such claims this time, which seems incredibly doubtful, nothing in my XP12 hanger needs anything they wishfully plan to offer. 

And seriously, until this kind of error message isnt the norm

There is zero chance of that changing.

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I already filed that claim in the same bin as being available on every platform with every button working just like the real thing.

Even if there ends up being any meaningful truth to such claims this time, which seems incredibly doubtful, nothing in my XP12 hanger needs anything they wishfully plan to offer. 

And seriously, until this kind of error message isnt the norm

There is zero chance of that changing.

If that's the case, then please don't forget to keep it real by ensuring that "Remove flight control surfaces..." box is checked, instead zooming around at Mach 2+ at sea level. After all, rEaLisM is everything, right?

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

So are all those "facts" "within context" enough for you? I sure hope so... 🙂

p.s.: You forgot to include DCS World - kinda surprising. And of course you left out Prepar3D, which has been "somewhat" popular over the years. Oh, right, because it's not available thru Steam! Yet another inconvenient "fact" for you to consider...

Keep hoping...what you presented does nothing to refute the stats on steam. That is...out of the 4 sims...MSFS is 1st, XP12 is last . I can see that you have been arguing with @mSparks for so long that you copied his "hack" for distractions, diversions, and useless / irrelevant info as opposed to admit when you are wrong. I warned you about going back and forth with him...now I can no longer tell the difference...

P.S. You can't erase facts. And my comments were based solely on the steam platform. If you want to change those facts on steam that I presented...go get about 5,000+ steam accounts and purchased XP12 on each of them and run all of them everyday. Until then, you can respond all you want, but your original response to me was in error.

Edited December 18, 20223 yr by OverTheEDJ

Once again I made the mistake of coming here to see what’s going on with XP12, only to find pages and pages of “my sim is better than yours.”  Some things never change.  Having the last word, and/or always being right is clearly an obsession with a few folks.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Funny because LR is hiring instead of firing. No signs of 'bad' anything happening after months of xp12 purchasing trends. And given how hard the shopping cart servers crashed on 12's beta release and how long after that that steam-buy was an option, steam probably isn't the best single metric of usage.

Steam stats serve a very real purpose when comparing how many folk are still with XP11 vs X12. You van even track back to when XP12 was released to only see a small dip in XP11 usage, on steam...

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

I suppose it could be bad news for those who need to feel the emotional security of claiming membership with the majority. This is the way XP releases have always gone.

Personal attacks are so 2019...like XP12. It is a huge step above XP11, and a small step behind MSFS when they made their announcement in 2019.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Also embarrassing that the majority is trying to throw shade on the underdog forum. Are you worried? Are you really that bothered that a fs2020 devotee/pilot declared that the underdog has the better flight model? 

What's embarrassing is that Ausitn now throws shade at MSFS during his interviews and even in the comment section of his YT videos. So by your same logic....is Austin worried or that bothered????

And keep in mind, I am not overly concerned about XPs claim to fame to a superior flight model as I think that MSFS has a better one. I would not debate it because it is very subjective and I can certainly see what folk like about both sims FM, but I choose MSFS when it comes to the overall flight experience, and I have yet to upgrade to XP12 unless LR can show that it is committed to development post release. So for me, the FM is a non-factor, they both (even XP11) get the job done in that area for me.

2 hours ago, Nixoq said:

This is what I was thinking as well. As a non-pilot it was a bit of a head scratcher to see real world pilots not coming to a consensus many times about flight models with opinions divided just as much as those among non-pilots. This was also true when there was a lot of disagreeing among pilots about whether MSFS gusts are realistic or overdone.

Exactly...opinions are opinions and ultimately its up to the user.

2 hours ago, Nixoq said:

In the end, the hardware most likely is a crucial factor in forming your opinion. Everyone fiddling with their sensitivity curves is going to lead to at least somewhat different results and I remember how switching from a yoke on the lower pricing end to a 737 full stand replica with proper physical resistance made flying in the sim feel drastically different.

Exactly... I did not truly enjoy Helis (on any platform) until I got a flight stick with an extension from the base to help with leverage and and small movements. Also, no center detent really made a big difference. And then from there, I have a different sensitivity profile for each Heli.

26 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

Once again I made the mistake of coming here to see what’s going on with XP12, only to find pages and pages of “my sim is better than yours.”  Some things never change.  Having the last word, and/or always being right is clearly an obsession with a few folks.

And who is derailing the discussions all the time? Of course the evil X-Plane users. If they wouldn't contradict all the time (not the other way round - heaven forbid!), it could be such a peaceful forum. But for that, the XP users would have to sh.t up, right? XP users have no right to contradict in the XP forum!!!

Apart from that - MSFS doesn't seem to be fun, as many of its users are lurking around here, instead of playing MSFS.

Edit: pity comes without charge, envy/hate wants to be earned.

Edited December 18, 20223 yr by flying_carpet

16 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

Once again I made the mistake of coming here to see what’s going on with XP12, only to find pages and pages of “my sim is better than yours.”  Some things never change.  Having the last word, and/or always being right is clearly an obsession with a few folks.

So, I gather that you won't make that same mistake again, right??? because you know doing the same thing over and over again...

And given that you are not into having the last word, we can reasonably expect that you won't post in this thread again, right???

Thanks for your contribution.