True. But we're only guessing here.

Given that this was, what must have been, a very rare occurrence, was it reported in the main media?

This is the first time I have heard of this.  He was in the Navy for 17 years.  Started flying for Republic in 2020 and training as a captain with Envoy 2 months before he died unexpectedly on November 19, 2022.

20 minutes ago, buzzbee said:

This is the first time I have heard of this.  He was in the Navy for 17 years.  Started flying for Republic in 2020 and training as a captain with Envoy 2 months before he died unexpectedly on November 19, 2022.

Did you get that from the newspapers?

There are a number of news reports about his incident.  Some say he died instantly and others say he died later.  What does it matter?  He was immediately incapacitated and shows the need for two pilots on commercial flights.

Noel

1 hour ago, Ron Attwood said:

Did you get that from the newspapers?

Do these count?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/22/envoy-air-says-pilot-who-was-reported-incapacitated-during-flight-has-died.html 

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/ohare-pilot-medical-emergency/ 

There are no major newspapers listed in Google Search but lots of minor publications like The Aviation Herald, Flying magazine, The Toronto Sun, Windsor Star.

Not exactly mainstream then?

None of us really know how accurate a mainstream news story or a secondary news story is.  A lot of what we read and believe comes from our own judgements and prejudices and what we want to believe.  To each his own.  As for this story, without a stethoscope in the cockpit we will probably never know.  How important is it when he was actually pronounced dead?  The point of the story, for me, is that it reinforces the need for two pilots in the cockpit.  Whether dead or just near death the captain was unable to fly the aircraft.

Noel

Edited January 25, 20233 yr by birdguy

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

How important is it when he was actually pronounced dead?

It's important to his family. If a doctor determines that he died instantly on the aircraft and there was no hope of reviving him, there would be no need to go further. 

If he was still alive on arrival at the hospital but subsequently died, there could be questions about what aid was given on the aircraft and what else could have been done to improve his chances of survival. Was there a defibrillator on board and, if so, was it working? If the first aid was administered by a flight attendant, could their first aid training be improved to help manage this kind of situation?

I would hope that, at least, the airline would do this kind of review. None of this diminishes the importance of having two pilots in the cockpit.

The most immediate and pressing problem is getting the aircraft and passengers back on the ground safely.  The fate of the captain becomes secondary in this situation.  Filling the cockpit full of doctors and/or nurses and/or stewards and stewardesses is an unnecessary distraction in a flight emergency situation.  Especially if it involves asking the co-pilot a bunch of questions.

Noel 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

The fate of the captain becomes secondary in this situation.

At that time but not now.

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

Filling the cockpit full of doctors and/or nurses and/or stewards and stewardesses is an unnecessary distraction in a flight emergency situation.

I don't think they would do that. When they removed the captain from his seat, they would have taken him out of the cockpit to a broader area where he could be treated without disturbing the co-pilot.

I don't think anyone is going to ask the co-pilot any questions until the aircraft is parked and passengers removed. In any case, I don't think they would have many questions for him since his only involvement was realising the captain was unconscious and notifying the flight attendant. All the important questions would be for those who treated the captain. Somebody must have informed the co-pilot as to the condition of the captain so that he could decide what action to take after landing.

Anyway, I don't think the captain's death should become just a footnote in this story.

2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Was there a defibrillator on board and, if so, was it working? If the first aid was administered by a flight attendant, could their first aid training be improved to help manage this kind of situation?

Since the FO had to move the body after landing in order to access the tiller, it is quite clear that no first aid was given at all.

In fact, it is not clear whether the FO even notified any of the cabin attendants of the pilot's incapacity at all.

1 hour ago, n4gix said:

Since the FO had to move the body to access the tiller, it is quite clear that no first aid was given at all.

Is it likely that, for safety reasons, nobody was allowed into the cockpit until the aircraft stopped on the taxiway?

Someone must have, at least checked for a pulse and breathing.

While the aircraft was returning to the airport, the FO said "He's knocked out, we're going to need paramedics" so he believed the captain was still alive at that point.

I'm guessing that it was about 25 minutes from the time the captain was incapacitated and 10 minutes from the time the captain was removed from the cockpit until the time the paramedics could board the aircraft at the gate. Then, how long does it take to get from the gate to the ambulance?

Edited January 25, 20233 yr by dmwalker

None of us were there so we are all just speculating.  Was the cockpit door locked?  Can it be opened from the outside?  While in flight can the copilot get up and unlock it and call for help?  Would he even think of doing that in an emergency situation?  Does a first officer already have his hands full and mind fully occupied while dealing with an emergency situation?

We know none of this.  And why would a reporting from mainstream media be any different from reporting in other media?  Would the reporting have saved the captain's life?

Noel

Edited January 25, 20233 yr by birdguy

19 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Is it likely that, for safety reasons, nobody was allowed into the cockpit until the aircraft stopped on the taxiway?

Since 1981, the FAA introduced the "sterile cockpit" rule. The black box should indicate whether the door was unlocked at any time at the time of or subsequent to the pilot's apparent heart attack.

I guess some might believe the first office should have put the aircraft on autopilot, unlocked the cockpit door, pulled the captain out of his seat, dragged him into the cabin and laid him out onto the floor, and yelled, 'Is there a doctor in the house?"

In any airborne emergency the first cardinal rule is FLY THE word not allowed AIRPLANE!  And that's just what the first office did.

Noel