4 minutes ago, JabbleWok said:

I find that worrying too

Uh, the next possible surprise??? 😉

Please read 10.8 of flightsim.to ToS!

 

And now have a look at simMarket:
"5.5 The permanent provision of backup files and product keys in the customer account is a free service of SIMMARKET. There is no legal entitlement to this service, which may be suspended at any time after delivery of the purchased product. The customer is responsible for backing up the delivered product keys and/or files for future use."

"8.5 In the event of unpermitted activities, SIMMARKET reserves the right to close the customer account temporarily or permanently."

 

And a look into Flight1:
"Flight1 may suspend the ability to purchase or re-activate a product if your account or information is associated with potential fraudulent activity, .... "

 

Oh, what a surprise ... a market does delete your account if you breach their rules ...

 

 

2 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Oh, what a surprise ... a market does delete your account if you breach their rules ...

Denying access in cases of fraud is perfectly reasonable.

@JabbleWok

@bobcat999

ToS 10.8

We will usually continue making Products you have purchased available to you in your Site's account so that you can download additional copies of the Product and retrieve your license key (if applicable), but that is not always the case, and we may limit or disable further downloads of a Product due to licensing restrictions or for other reasons. The permanent provision of backup files, downloadable files, receipts and Product license keys in your account is a free service of Flightsim.to. There is no legal claim to this service, which can be discontinued at any time after delivery of the purchased Product. The customer is responsible for saving the delivered Product keys and / or downloaded files for future use.We will usually continue making Products you have purchased available to you in your Site's account so that you can download additional copies of the Product and retrieve your license key (if applicable), but that is not always the case, and we may limit or disable further downloads of a Product due to licensing restrictions or for other reasons. The permanent provision of backup files, downloadable files, receipts and Product license keys in your account is a free service of Flightsim.to. There is no legal claim to this service, which can be discontinued at any time after delivery of the purchased Product. The customer is responsible for saving the delivered Product keys and / or downloaded files for future use.

I suspect that you’ll find the same with other vendors.

Don’t make me wrong I don’t take party here but lets try not to blow things out of proportion.

 

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by Dominique_K

5 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Oh, what a surprise ... a market does delete your account if you breach their rules ...

In this case it sounds a bit like Facebook/ Oculus. Posting a photo of your bum on Facebook should not affect your Oculus purchase. 

But it did.

Until they were badgered into eventually changing it. 

If a site has different areas that requires different behaviour and rules then there shouldn't be a crossover in effect. 

 

Just now, Dominique_K said:

...

I suspect that you’ll find the same with other vendors.

Don’t make me wrong I don’t take party here but lets try not to blow things out of proportion.

 

I'd expect all vendors to have a self-protection policy to deal with fraud or abuse, but I'd also expect there to be a due process so it's not done unjustly, including explaining why it's being invoked. And indeed there are still vendors who allow limited downloads after purchase, though they usually make that clear before purchase.

It's not about the TOS but about what they actually do in practice which affects confidence.  I don't think any of us would object to a fraudster being cut off, we just don't want ordinary users being caught out.

2 minutes ago, JabbleWok said:

we just don't want ordinary users being caught out

So, we have to hear what @darshonaut will tell us, what probably happened ...
I think he should have an idea

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by guenseli

9 minutes ago, guenseli said:

And now have a look at simMarket:
"5.5 The permanent provision of backup files and product keys in the customer account is a free service of SIMMARKET. There is no legal entitlement to this service, which may be suspended at any time after delivery of the purchased product. The customer is responsible for backing up the delivered product keys and/or files for future use."

More and more shops don't provide any files (nor keys) at all. Many purchases via Simmarket use their "Simstaller" technology were you don't get any files to backup upon purchase. I surmise if the account is gone there is no way to re-install.

I don't have any backup files of recent purchases not only from Simmarket, but ORBX Central, Contrail, and others, too.

I can only hope they will play nice with me.

Kind regards, Michael

I buy a lot of 3d models. 

The sheer amount of them that are pulled after purchase is incredible. On one site well over half are gone.

Even Turbosquid, which I presume is the most reputable, pulls them without warning and with no way to redownload. 

You gotta grab stuff while you can and expect to be let down. Not ideal but it is how it is. 

Not a very inspiring glimpse of the future of other areas of our lives. 

 

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by superspud

12 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

...There is no legal claim to this service, which can be discontinued at any time after delivery of the purchased Product. ...

Don’t make me wrong I don’t take party here but lets try not to blow things out of proportion.

I don't feel like I am blowing anything out of proportion. 
While it is definitely the responsibility of the purchaser to keep a backup of the original file and the serial key, if the product was updated on their site, say, due to a change in a sim update in MSFS, darshonaut would not be able to get access to that update for a product he has purchased legally. 

1 minute ago, pmb said:

More and more shops don't provide any files (nor keys) at all. Many purchases via Simmarket use their "Simstaller" technology were you don't get any files to backup upon purchase. I surmise if the account is gone there is no way to re-install.

They place the product in your Community folder, so if you want you can back it up from there. Or move it to an Addons Linker-friendly location.  Some of these apps allow you to choose the target location anyway, e.g. Contrail's.

1 minute ago, superspud said:

You gotta grab stuff while you can and expect to be let down. Not ideal but it is how it is.

I reckon it's the small vendors where that's an issue, as they often don't have the resources to provide extensive download capacity or storage.  That contrasts with the big players who still let you download stuff a decade or more after you bought it.  I could still grab my Orbx FSX Australia (originally 4 CDs) from their server if I wanted to.

49 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Uh, the next possible surprise??? 😉

Please read 10.8 of flightsim.to ToS!

And now have a look at simMarket:
"5.5 The permanent provision of backup files and product keys in the customer account is a free service of SIMMARKET. There is no legal entitlement to this service, which may be suspended at any time after delivery of the purchased product. The customer is responsible for backing up the delivered product keys and/or files for future use."

"8.5 In the event of unpermitted activities, SIMMARKET reserves the right to close the customer account temporarily or permanently."

And a look into Flight1:
"Flight1 may suspend the ability to purchase or re-activate a product if your account or information is associated with potential fraudulent activity, .... "

Oh, what a surprise ... a market does delete your account if you breach their rules ...

Being able to access updates for software products you have bought is fairly important isn't it?  
For instance, if a windows update affects the software, or in our case, if a sim update affects the aircraft or scenery.
It is kind of like a warranty isn't it?

Now there is never any guarantee that the vendor won't go bust, or cease updating, like Bijan's trees, but wilfully denying someone access to their purchase updates for legally purchased products is different.  This needs to be separated out from forum bans etc.

I bought a fridge freezer for PC World last year.  It is great and has a 5 year warranty.  If I go on the customer support forums and have a blow-out with a customer service manager and get banned, they don't scrap my five year warranty. 

I'm talking hardware here I know, but I am sure you get my drift - there should still be access to what you have bought.

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by bobcat999

4 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

I'm talking hardware here I know, but I am sure you get my drift - there should still be access to what you have bought.

I agree.  It shows that the digital world is still some way behind physical products in terms of consumer rights (e.g. ownership vs. licensing), not least because it's much more of an international marketplace where no single country's consumer laws have much clout.  Hence the importance of reputation and confidence, so we can choose vendors we feel won't let us down.

8 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Being able to access updates for software products you have bought is fairly important isn't it?  

Of course it is important. But when you breach their ToS (and I believe there must be a massive breach), then you have no right any more.
Similar if you have illegal stuff at Google drive or OneDrive or whatever ... account suspended!

1 minute ago, JabbleWok said:

I agree.  It shows that the digital world is still some way behind physical products in terms of consumer rights (e.g. ownership vs. licensing), not least because it's much more of an international marketplace where no single country's consumer laws have much clout.  Hence the importance of reputation and confidence, so we can choose vendors we feel won't let us down.

Yes, I know it is a nightmare with software, as it seems we never fully own anything .
Therefore, a lot of our confidence is based around reputation and trust.  Obviously, for some people, this is taking a bit of a hit at the moment.

8 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Of course it is important. But when you breach their ToS (and I believe there must be a massive breach), then you have no right any more.
Similar if you have illegal stuff at Google drive or OneDrive or whatever ... account suspended!

OK - yes, I get that.
 
If it was just disagreeing with their TOS though, it seems tough, and the purchases should be separated from any forum or uploading account ban if any transgression it was not related to his purchases.

It seems if they ban your account, everything goes, and they throw the baby out with the bath-water! 

I suppose we don't know the detail, and darshonaut doesn't seem to know either, so pointless speculating.

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by bobcat999