23 minutes ago, Bernard Ducret said:

The departure and approach are assembled to your routing by the EFB, it is not a standalone chart and/or and approach plate as in Navigraph similar to a Jeppesen's. If this is what you want for your simulation, then only Navigraph can provide that (or a download of real charts from official sites).

The thing is that quite often it was posted that Navigraph charts weren't needed because the poster used this EFB and it gave him all the charts. That's not entirely true, so it has become clear. I suppose it depends on your definition of 'charts. 😉

25 minutes ago, Bernard Ducret said:

The function of Aivlasoft EFB is to create and show a complete rendition of your routing from your departure point to your arrival gate or parking, which you can manage as you see fit, change waypoints, SIDs, STARs etc...

Which is exactly what LNM can do for free... But yes, I do understand the EFB app can do more: in various discussions the EFB was mainly brought up as a one-pay-Navigraph-charts replacement and 1. that's not true and 2. that's not doing the EFB justice, so I've learned by now.

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You’ll need to ask Navigraph about your options. There is no ”data only” option now. That’s the FMS one I subscribe to. Charts is your best option. But see what they say.

A database is created in EFB but as well as reading your data they also use their own up-to-date info. So, for instance, when LPPT runways recently changed 03/21 became 02/20. That was shown in EFB even if your own scenery still had 03/21. Unless you updated yours with a Navigraph update there would be no SIDs and STARs available.

I don’t know how they do it but kudos to them for keeping data correct.

Okay... so the idea of buying the EFB once and be done with it can go out of the window if you also need a Navigraph subscription. Specially if you are forced to get an Ultimate subscription! Good to know. I will contact Navigraph and ask what my options are. Thanks for the heads up anyway because I didn't know this! (It is still regularly posted on this forum that you can buy Navigraph data without the charts: something I will certainly NOT post anymore!)

@tup61, here’s my post about the lack of price for FMS data only. They conclude confirming only one option now exists. I would push for a FMS option. You’ve nothing to lose.

https://forum.navigraph.com/t/no-pricing-for-fms-data-why/11195/1

1 hour ago, Bernard Ducret said:

You would really need to download the free Aivlasoft EFB v2 trial and revise your statement as it is incorrect. A simple visit to their site  will clarify this matter 

SIDs, STARs, IFR approaches are all indeed available and easy to use with descent profiles. You would need a simple Navigraph FMS subscription to keep it up-to-date.

You are entitled to prefer one software versus another (in your case LNM), but it is unfair to spread false information.

I am always amazed at some that criticize Avliasoft EFB, and then you realize that even though it has a free demo, they have never used it, but they are experts on what it doesn't do.  

5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@tup61, here’s my post about the lack of price for FMS data only. They conclude confirming only one option now exists. I would push for a FMS option. You’ve nothing to lose.

https://forum.navigraph.com/t/no-pricing-for-fms-data-why/11195/1

I guess I will do again, what I have done in the past. Get a monthly subscription for data, and then cancel it after I download it, and do this once a year. 

9 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I guess I will do again, what I have done in the past. Get a monthly subscription for data, and then cancel it after I download it, and do this once a year. 

The big question is if this is still possible... 😒 I just e-mailed Navigraph about this.

16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@tup61, here’s my post about the lack of price for FMS data only. They conclude confirming only one option now exists. I would push for a FMS option. You’ve nothing to lose.

https://forum.navigraph.com/t/no-pricing-for-fms-data-why/11195/1

Thanks for the link. In that topic they say "We are keeping the navigation data subscription mainly for existing subscribers and that is why it appears only under the account pages" but even that is incorrect: I can't see anything about a navdata only subscription on my account page, only a link to my current ultimate subscription. The navdata only option seems totally gone.

Well, one thing is for sure: I will make a backup of the Navigraph folders in my community folder this evening and save the current AIRAC for future use (like when a reinstall is needed or if I get a new PC). Afaik only a small edit if some cfg needs to be done in order to activate this navdata instead of the Navblue data in MSFS. And if I can keep the current AIRAC enabled on SimBrief I don't mind flying the coming years with the same AIRAC.

If however I can't keep on using the SimBrief AIRAC and things don't sync at all anymore after a while I will enable the default Navblue data again and stop using SimBrief. LNM will do in that case. I hate being forced to take a subscription for anything.

Edited March 6, 20233 yr by tup61

28 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I guess I will do again, what I have done in the past. Get a monthly subscription for data, and then cancel it after I download it, and do this once a year. 

Once a year won’t do much. A lot changes in that time. You’ve been using EFB for a while. Did you never opt for FMS only?

1 hour ago, Bernard Ducret said:

you could have a good look at the free trial

I did...and it offers 0 advantage over a Navigraph Ultimate subscription, except for the cost. 

36 minutes ago, tup61 said:

I can't see anything about a navdata only subscription on my account page, only a link to my current ultimate subscription. The navdata only option seems totally gone.

I would complain on the forum especially if you had the Ultimate subscription. If we hadn’t complained loud and long a few years ago about the plan to force us to subscribe to a more expensive option we’d be paying far more now.

Keep it civil but insist on the FMS option.

7 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I would complain on the forum especially if you had the Ultimate subscription. If we hadn’t complained loud and long a few years ago about the plan to force us to subscribe to a more expensive option we’d be paying far more now.

Keep it civil but insist on the FMS option.

I see this morning that there were two other threads on this topic, and both were closed, so I started another one. https://forum.navigraph.com/t/navdata-pricing/11408

21 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Once a year won’t do much. A lot changes in that time. You’ve been using EFB for a while. Did you never opt for FMS only?

Yes, I have always subscribed to FMS only. 

23 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I would complain on the forum especially if you had the Ultimate subscription. If we hadn’t complained loud and long a few years ago about the plan to force us to subscribe to a more expensive option we’d be paying far more now.

Keep it civil but insist on the FMS option.

Done.

Okay. So. The option to get a navdata only subscription is ONLY available if you do not currently have any subscription at all. If I login to my current account (with the ultimate sub still active) the navdata option is nowhere to be found. However, if you log in with an account that currently has NO subscription and go to 'My account' (so NOT the Pricing page!) you will see 'Get a Navigation Data subscription' underneath the big and bold ultimate option. This option is also available to NEW users btw.

  

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Get a monthly subscription for data, and then cancel it after I download it, and do this once a year.

Not possible anymore... There ONLY is an option for a yearly subscription, costing €36.05 (including VAT). You can NOT (so it seems) buy one month of data anymore. (I seem to remember this yearly data only price being a lot lower a while ago btw, but well...)

So... I am considering giving MSFS a try without a Navigraph sub once my ultimate sub has ended. I am curious to see how well that goes over time.

  

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Once a year won’t do much. A lot changes in that time.

That's of no importance as long as all your addons use the same AIRAC. 😉 I don't care for monthly changes AT ALL as long as everything is in sync. But well, the one month option doesn't exist anymore so... we can skip this part of the discussion. 😉

Edited March 6, 20233 yr by tup61

14 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Okay. So. The option to get a navdata only subscription is ONLY available if you do not currently have any subscription at all. If I login to my current account (with the ultimate sub still active) the navdata option is nowhere to be found. However, if you log in with an account that currently has NO subscription and go to 'My account' (so NOT the Pricing page!) you will see 'Get a Navigation Data subscription' underneath the big and bold ultimate option. This option is also available to NEW users btw.

  

Not possible anymore... There ONLY is an option for a yearly subscription, costing €36.05 (including VAT). You can NOT (so it seems) buy one month of data anymore. (I seem to remember this yearly data only price being a lot lower a while ago btw, but well...)

So... I am considering giving MSFS a try without a Navigraph sub once my ultimate sub has ended. I am curious to see how well that goes over time.

  

That's of no importance as long as all your addons use the same AIRAC. 😉 I don't care for monthly changes AT ALL as long as everything is in sync. But well, the one month option doesn't exist anymore so... we can skip this part of the discussion. 😉

I wonder how the FMC in the PMDG aircraft will be updated without Navigraph?

17 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Okay. So. The option to get a navdata only subscription is ONLY available if you do not currently have any subscription at all. If I login to my current account (with the ultimate sub still active) the navdata option is nowhere to be found.

I’ve just logged in and the only option available to me is Monthly or Annual Unlimited. My FMS Data option is not shown but as previously discussed I am eligible for that for the foreseeable future l

€81.64 per annum versus €29.79. That’s a hell of a difference. Outrageous really.