3 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

That's different though Richard. What we are talking about is the urge to cry, the propensity.

You controlling your emotions in order to focus on the priorities is laudable, but its how you felt at the time that's of interest. Whether you felt emotional but controlled it, or if you felt nothing.

You said you "don't cry easily", but is that self control or lack of emotion? I would think, for you, its self control.

None of this is meant as a criticism of course, we are all different. The differences amongst us are just interesting. 

 

 

That is a good point. 

To be honest. I didn't 'feel' I had to cry in that situation for one second. I was watching the love of my life giving birth to our first child and at the same time seeing she was going through hell, more or less. I was watching the nurses and doctors, trying to ascertain the level of stress they themselves were radiating from what I was seeing 'wifey' go through but their calm professionalism probably helped me keep my cool. Me crying and seeming unstable just wouldn't help anyone. Stiff upper lip and all that. 

Half an eternity later I cut the cord and held my first born in my arms, realising the first face he really saw was my ugly mug. He and her were both very much ok despite everything and I was grateful. She fell asleep due to the exhaustion while I held my little boy close to my skin. It was a moment I will never forget as long as I live and I was knocked back by it all. But I didn't cry. Not because I didn't want to but because I didn't need it for one bit. 

As for your question if I don't cry out of self control I would say I don't feel shame about crying. Some things get to me, such as the link I provided. Another anecdote to this would be when I was about to turn 40. The first born was at that time running on four years old. This particular night his mother was handling the going-to-bed-routines and she saw that he was sad about something and asked him about it. Turns out that when you turn 40 you are VERY close to death and he was sad that I was turning 40 and would soon be dead from old age and then could never play with dad again. 

When she retold me that story later that evening it was like someone had peeled a thousand onions one inch from my eyes. 

54 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

"Crying like a little word not allowed"? Some people have difficulty holding back the tears in certain situations. There is nothing wrong with that. Just because you are able to do it should not automatically mean that you are somehow more of a man because of it. We are all different, and we should respect that.

Sure. Cry all you want whenever you want. I am not stopping you. 

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Seems, according to science, there are a number of reasons why some cry more readily. One of them is empathy.

https://www.tlc.com/style---self-care/why-do-some-people-cry-more-than-others

 

 

Can't see the 'science' you are referring to here as it seems to 'be blocked in my country'.

Care to elaborate on the methods in the study?

49 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

Care to elaborate on the methods in the study?

 

The study they were refering to was here...

https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/jscp.1987.5.4.535

Basically, there are many variables. 

 

Quote

Social and personality correlates of crying relevant to clinical application were examined in the laboratory. The effects of gender and of gender-pairing on emotional expression of film-induced sadness were evaluated. College students served in pairs as experimental subjects. Results indicated that men retrospectively reported less crying than women, and that both male and female subjects reported more appropriate sex-stereotypic behavior (i.e., males cried less, females cried more) when in opposite-sex pairings. Correlational analyses indicated that females, unlike males, showed clear concordances between sadness and crying. Males, unlike females, evidenced negative correlations between reported anger and crying. Personality variables (including empathy, extraversion, femininity, ego strength, and prior levels of stress) were found to be associated with crying and sadness, although markedly different correlation patterns were seen for men and women. The findings collectively suggest that crying is associated with a complex interaction among gender, personality, and context variables.

 

Empathy is a variable.

Age is relevant for men, too, I would say. The older your get the lower your testosterone. Thus, what little female hormone we have becomes more significant. 

 

More research...

Quote

Regarding personality features, individuals high on neuroticism and/or empathy cry relatively more (Vingerhoets, 2013; Vingerhoets, van Tilburg, Boelhouwer, & van Heck, 2001), whereas dismissively attached persons tend to cry less than others (Laan, van Assen, & Vingerhoets, 2012). In addition, as we will see later, some psychopathological characteristics may influence an individual’s crying behavior.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6402489/

1 hour ago, Swe_Richard said:

Stiff upper lip and all that. 

 

Watching my son being born, the "stiff upper lip" was functional. My sons heartbeat was dropping  a bit, probably due to the pain killing drug my wife was given. So the midwife asked me to monitor the heart beat. Concentrating on that acted as a distraction.

When my daughter was born though, there was no such distraction, and yes, I had trouble holding back the emotion. Such a profound experience, watching a new human arriving. 

Edited April 5, 20233 yr by martin-w

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

DS9 would have to be in the running for me though. Superb writing. Way of The Warrior was exceptional. 

DS9 for me was an excellent series with as you've written "Superb writing." For me, the only series that surpassed even DS9 was "Babylon 5."

The final episode "Sleeping in Light" as John Sheridan made his solo journey to fulfill his destiny had me in nearly continuous tears. IMHO, J. Michael Straczynski is one of the finest screenwriters to have ever written sci-fi soap operas! 😃

During all five seasons, JMS maintained a newsgroup where he engaged with fans. He had actually developed a five-year story arc before the production began. It was so well developed that he could easily have turned it into a five volume novel instead of a screen adaptation.

13 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

The study they were refering to was here...

https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/jscp.1987.5.4.535

Basically, there are many variables. 

 

Your last sentence kind of summarises that 'science'  very aptly. 

If you please could give me materials and methods I could go deeper into this 'science'. It seems like the abstract is all I can read, and that is just about the nothing burger of the century...?

The last sentence: "The findings collectively suggest that crying is associated with a complex interaction among gender, personality, and context variables" means absolutely nothing. 

2 minutes ago, n4gix said:

For me, the only series that surpassed even DS9 was "Babylon 5."

 

Oh yes, superb. I would place DS9 above, but yes B5 was excellent. 👍

 

What I don't buy into though is the criticism that DS9 copied B5. The only similarly is they are space stations. 😄

 

 

5 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

If you please could give me materials and methods I could go deeper into this 'science'. It seems like the abstract is all I can read

 

You have to pay $50. 🤣 Do some googling. Or try the other link.

 

 

12 minutes ago, n4gix said:

DS9 for me was an excellent series with as you've written "Superb writing."

 

 

30 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

If you please could give me materials and methods I could go deeper into this 'science'. It seems like the abstract is all I can read,

I always check ResearchGate first. This photocopy might be the best you can find:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269600532_Gender_and_Personality_Variables_in_Film-Induced_Sadness_and_Crying

This might be useful, too:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6795704/ 

Edited April 5, 20233 yr by dmwalker

38 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Watching my son being born, the "stiff upper lip" was functional. My sons heartbeat was dropping  a bit, probably due to the pain killing drug my wife was given. So the midwife asked me to monitor the heart beat. Concentrating on that acted as a distraction.

When my daughter was born though, there was no such distraction, and yes, I had trouble holding back the emotion. Such a profound experience, watching a new human arriving. 

 

Well, I can see more where you are coming from reading this. My wife wasn't on any pain meds what so ever so I knew she was mentally lucid through all that happened. When she had a 15 minute 'labour episode' (there is probably an english word for this I don't know) I could see that she (and the child whose heartbeat was hard to detect) was at the end of their stamina. I called the midwife and she joined us shortly thereafter. She looked at the monitor hooked up to wifey and mumbled something to herself before adjusting the baby with some hands-on adjustments (a wonderful old lady close to retirement and as such absolutely oozing confidence and knowledge) . After that the agony subsided and the rest is a blur until I held him in my arms. 

 

22 minutes ago, martin-w said:

You have to pay $50. 

When pigs fly. The end of the abstract says it all.

Please refrain from alluding people to be short on empathy for not crying all the time going forward all while citing 'science' you haven't yourself read and analysed. 

 

Edited April 5, 20233 yr by Swe_Richard
Spelling like a Swede.

1 hour ago, Swe_Richard said:

Please refrain from alluding people to be short on empathy for not crying all the time going forward all while citing 'science' you haven't yourself read and analysed.

 

🙄 There's no need for that attitude Richard. I said, "some of us have empathy" and as indicated by the research, empathy is one of the factors. As for "citing" you actually asked, so I provided. I also said, its not any kind of criticism of you. Now, when you refer to those that cry as "like a little XXXX" I too could get offended, but I didn't did I? 

I also said "for you its self control" rather than an absence of caring or empathy or anything else. And you yourself referred to "stiff upper lip" So not really sure why you've suddenly decided to be offended. Especially as the words were typed quite a few replies ago and we had a conversation about it and clarified.. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 20233 yr by martin-w

17 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

🙄 There's no need for that attitude Richard. I said, "some of us have empathy" and as indicated by the research, empathy is one of the factors. As for "citing" you actually asked, so I provided. I also said, its not any kind of criticism of you. Now, when you refer to those that cry as "like a little XXXX" I too could get offended, but I didn't did I? 

I also said "for you its self control" rather than an absence of caring or empathy or anything else. So not really sure why you've suddenly decided to be offended. Especially as the words were typed quite a few replies ago and addressed. 

 

 

Attitude? Not offended at all. 

You provided an abstract and nothing more..? Where is materials and methods and the analyses of those?  The rather ambiguous last sentence in said abstract would need some further explaining, don't you think? 

The study itself seems to belong in the realm of psychology. What is the replication rate in that field? 

However, as we will probably never understand each others point of view, I will probably refrain from further postings in this thread. I have a couple of kids wanting to wrestle me as well.. 🤪

11 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

Where is materials and methods and the analyses of those?

I think what you want is on pages 4 and 5 of the ResearchGate reference I posted.