8 minutes ago, Noel said:

2 or 3 if we're real lucky.  I'm saying the claims remind me of Theranos.  

 

That used to be the old way of thinking. Namely, fusion is twenty years away and always will be. That doesn't apply anymore. Significant progress has now been made. 10 years I would say. Certainly not 30. Unless Helion are indeed on to something, and their7th gen reactor (being built now) does indeed generate  electricity in excess of that which it requires to function.

Have you actually watched the Helion video? Are you actually up to speed on the latest developments? 

In it for the venture capital is a claim often made by the cynics. And sometimes that's true. Not this time though, there are lots of companies all over the planet working on fusion and progress has now been made.

Come back in 10 years and tell me I'm wrong. 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

13 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Come back in 10 years and tell me I'm wrong. 

Come back in 10 years and tell me I'm right 😉

Actually between Helion and ITER the entire proposal just doesn't sit well with what's involved.  My money is on geothermal--this is a fabulous segue for oil and gas companies to utilize their drilling prowess to access unlimited carbon-free energy that's already sitting under everyone's feet. Sure there are technical challenges but compared to what's involved w/ fusion it seems relatively simple.  From ChatGPT:

Here are some reasons why geothermal energy can be considered a practical baseload energy source:

1. Renewable and Sustainable: Geothermal energy is renewable as it relies on the heat generated from the Earth's core, which is virtually inexhaustible on human timescales. The Earth's heat replenishes naturally, making geothermal energy a sustainable option.

2. Constant Availability: Unlike some other renewable energy sources such as solar or wind, geothermal energy is available 24/7. The Earth's heat remains relatively constant, allowing geothermal power plants to operate continuously, providing a steady supply of electricity.

3. High Capacity Factors: Geothermal power plants have high capacity factors, which means they can generate electricity consistently at a high percentage of their maximum capacity. Geothermal plants typically operate at capacity factors of 90% or more, making them well-suited for baseload power.

4. Long Operational Life: Geothermal power plants have a long operational life, typically exceeding 30 years. This longevity provides a stable and consistent power supply without the need for frequent replacements or major infrastructure changes.

5. Small Land Footprint: Geothermal power plants can produce a significant amount of power without requiring large land areas compared to other energy sources. This makes them suitable for both centralized and decentralized power generation, depending on the resource availability.

6. Minimal Greenhouse Gas Emissions: Geothermal energy produces minimal greenhouse gas emissions during the power generation process. This makes it an environmentally friendly option and helps in reducing carbon dioxide emissions, contributing to mitigating climate change.

Jamie Beard: How can we tap into the vast power of geothermal energy? : NPR

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by Noel

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

Actually between Helion and ITER the entire proposal just doesn't sit well with what's involved.

 

ITER and Helion are two entirely different approaches to fusion.

So have you watched the Helion video?

My attitude, rather than labeling Helion as "hoaxers" and just after venture capital, despite not having any evidence that's the case, is to keep an open mind and see where the technology leads. 

 

23 minutes ago, Noel said:

My money is on geothermal

 

You've now switched the discussion to geothermal, and of course, that wasn't what we were debating.

One of the main issues with geothermal is that there is a limited number of locations on the planet where its feasible, along tectonic plates is viable.  

That being said, I did post a topic a while back regarding new technology that, ironically, utilizes technology from fusion research. Namely a gyrotron that vaporizes boreholes and can drill to incredible depths, making geothermal viable pretty much anywhere. 

Now of course, I could be a cynic and claim that the company that has developed this gyrotron technology are just hoaxers and after venture capital. But I wont do that, instead I'll keep an open mind and see where the technology leads. 

 

Another video for you to not watch...

 

 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

38 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Come back in 10 years and tell me I'm wrong.

If I'm still around in 10 years I'll b e 99 and probably won't care where the power to recharge my wheelchair batteries comes from.

Noel

11 minutes ago, birdguy said:

If I'm still around in 10 years I'll b e 99 and probably won't care where the power to recharge my wheelchair batteries comes from.

Noel

 

David Sinclair will have perfected his sirtuin  longevity treatments by then and I will have paid to rejuvenate you. 👍

47 minutes ago, martin-w said:

You've now switched the discussion to geothermal, and of course, that wasn't what we were debating.

Now of course, I could be a cynic and claim that the company that has developed this gyrotron technology are just hoaxers and after venture capital. But I wont do that, instead I'll keep an open mind and see where the technology leads.

Fortunately, Martin, your hope/optimism, and my skepticism, have exactly zero impact on when fusion or geothermal will become practically applied.  You go ahead and be a good boy with your open (gullible) mind and see where the technology leads.  In the mean time my money is on the nearly inexaustible source of heat under our feet.

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

So have you watched the Helion video?

I really admire your optimism in regards to alternative energy.  I truly do.  I am cynical, not by nature, but due to many years of reading/watching stories about varied and numerous scams, corporate, political, and individual greed and dishonesty, and people killing each other for a few hundred dollars or even nothing at all. 

Once again, you're basing all of your conclusions on what a small company marketing video and website tell you.  I did watch the video, and it is an interesting concept.  They're not just using excess heat from a fusion reactor to produce steam and turn turbines, but instead are using a fluctuating magnetic field produced by the fusion reaction to produce electricity.  I am intrigued and hope it works.

So far the company has not actually built a functioning fusion reactor that produces more power then what is consumed to operate it.  They have built a "prototype", and they never say that the prototype has successfully produced electricity.

I'll believe it when I see it - for real, not in a concept video.

Dave

15 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

instead are using a fluctuating magnetic field produced by the fusion reaction to produce electricity.

And diagnoses 134 different diseases with a single drop of blood!

1 hour ago, Noel said:

You go ahead and be a good boy with your open (gullible) mind and see where the technology leads.

So, you are also saying that Microsoft is gullible, right?

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

David Sinclair will have perfected his sirtuin  longevity treatments by then

If you look after youe sirtuins, your telomeres will look after themselves.

17 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

So, you are also saying that Microsoft is gullible, right?

Nope, just Martin 🤣

All in good fun no one here knows anything about what the future holds for ground-based fusion.  This too:  Microsoft isn't funding Helion it's only said it will agree to buy power from them if n when.   Pipe dreams currently but wow when you have the cure for cancer, or for unlimited fusion power, man you can grab all the investment capital available.

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by Noel

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Fortunately, Martin, your hope/optimism,

You go ahead and be a good boy with your open (gullible) mind 

 

I'm not optimistic and I'm not pessimistic. I keep an open mind and don't automatically label anyone a hoaxer/just after venture capital, without evidence. Helion may fail, or they may succeed, I will remain impartial till we know which. 

An open mind isn't gullible. Its open to the success of the company and its open to the failure of the company. Not being psychic, I can't yet predict witch. 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

1 minute ago, martin-w said:

I'm not optimistic and I'm not pessimistic. I keep an open mind and don't automatically label anyone a hoaxer/just after venture capital, without evidence. Helion may fail, or they may succeed, I will remain impartial till we know witch. 

Well you're perfect then.  

Cheers

10 minutes ago, Noel said:

Microsoft isn't funding Helion it's only said it will agree to buy power from them if n when.

Microsoft must have some belief then, don't you think? They wouldn't enter into an agreement on a whim.