And if Hellion Energy don't supply the said fusion power by 2028, then they have to pay Microsoft compensation!

Good grief, they are either bonkers or supremely confident that they will indeed be capable of delivering power to Microsoft by that date. 

https://newatlas.com/energy/helion-microsoft-fusion-2028/

 

Quote

In an outrageously audacious move, Washington-based fusion power startup Helion has signed the world's first fusion power supply deal, promising to deliver Microsoft at least 50 megawatts of clean fusion power by 2028, or pay financial penalties.

 

Quote

 

Commonwealth Fusion Systems reckons its SPARC facility will demonstrate net energy by 2025, and will start supplying the grid with power "in the early 2030s," potentially producing more than 100 MW. TAE Technologies reckons it'll have a prototype of its Da Vinci generator supplying electrons to the grid in the early 2030s as well. Zap Energy is hoping its FuZE-Q reactor can create more energy than it uses by 2026.

None of those guys have signed a power supply deal yet, though. Helion, on the other hand, appears to have taken on some risk and put money where its mouth is. “This is a binding agreement that has financial penalties if we can’t build a fusion system,” Helion founder and CEO David Kirtley told The Verge. “We’ve committed to be able to build a system and sell it commercially to [Microsoft].”

 

 

We don't really know what the terms of the contract with Microsoft are.  The financial "penalties" could be minuscule if they don't fulfill the contract.  The company is being very vague about the whole thing, and I'll never trust Microsoft.  Anyway, I'm always skeptical of these little startup companies who make big claims.  I've seen too many times where these things go belly up, the investors lose all their money, but the execs walk away with millions.  I hope this is different.

I support fusion research and do believe that it will be a primary energy source one day.  I think that the only way we'll ever be able to travel to other planets in a routine and economically feasible way will be using fusion power.

However, Helion so far has only produced a neat magnet, gotten some patents, done some CAD stuff, and opened a new headquarters.  They still have to build the prototype reactor and demonstrate 1)that it actually works, and 2)that they get more power out of it than they put in - a very tall order.

There's also the issue of the fuels, especially Helium-3.  Helium-3 is expensive and production comes primarily from Tritium decay, and Tritium is produced mainly from nuclear fission reactors.  I did read something recently about the reactor itself producing some Tritium, so that would be pretty cool. 

The bottom line is that a practical fusion reactor must be able to not only produce electricity at a reasonable cost, but actually produce more energy than what's required to run the thing, and that includes the energy used to produce the fuels.

I look at the likes of ITER, which will take years and billions of dollars to make, and then look at these little guys claiming they can do it faster and better.  We'll see. 

I'll continue to watch this fusion research with interest.

Dave

3 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I'll continue to watch this fusion research with interest.

Likewise. Fusion is the holy grail of energy production.

Hard agree on the rest of your comment. It's easy for Helion to say that they will pay financial penalties, the execs can just shrug they shoulders and declare the enterprise insolvent if it doesn't go to plan.
As a potential investor, I'd want to see the execs continually add more of their own capital into the business and check when they can cash out shares to ensure I wasn't bag holding.
 

I like photo synthesis. It's got my vote for the future of all our energy needs and a clean environment.

16 hours ago, dave2013 said:

However, Helion so far has only produced a neat magnet, gotten some patents, done some CAD stuff, and opened a new headquarters.

 

Actually, no, they are on their 6th generation prototype. I recall it's calad Tentra, or something like that. I'll track down a video later, I've just got up. I recall it looks like the reactor from Star Trek Enterprise. 😁

The 6th gen reactor has exceeded 100 million degrees. The first private company to do it, I recall. That was back in 2021.

Edited May 17, 20233 yr by martin-w

I wonder how much Microsoft put up for its side of of the contract. To me, it sounds very much like take the money now and worry about the penalties later.

But best of luck to them. It may not be impossible, but it certainly isn't easy.

This is the Helion 6th gen Trenta reactor. Fusion achieved with ease, 100 million degrees in excess.

Extracting more energy than it consumes is of course the ultimate goal. 

 

 

Edited May 17, 20233 yr by martin-w

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

We don't really know what the terms of the contract with Microsoft are.  The financial "penalties" could be minuscule if they don't fulfill the contract.  The company is being very vague about the whole thing, and I'll never trust Microsoft. 

 

Yep, penalties could be $2.50 for all we know. 😀

 

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

There's also the issue of the fuels, especially Helium-3.  Helium-3 is expensive 

 

So far they've exceeded 100 million degrees, demonstrated magnetic energy recovery with 95% efficiency, compression fields greater than 10 Tesla, sustained plasma's... and they've achieved a complete self supplied helium 3 fuel cycle!

 

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I look at the likes of ITER, which will take years and billions of dollars to make, and then look at these little guys claiming they can do it faster and better. 

 

ITER won't add any energy to the grid at all, its purely experimental, a $21 billion experiment. I'm routing for the little guys to be honest, the compact reactors. Helion's offering seems impressive, some amazing milestones past with the 6th gen reactor. General Fusion and their steam punk looking reactor impresses me too. 

 

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I think that the only way we'll ever be able to travel to other planets in a routine and economically feasible way will be using fusion power.

 

Yep, agree. As we speak NASA and DARPA and others are working on a nuclear thermal engine. 

1 hour ago, lzamm said:

I wonder how much Microsoft put up for its side of of the contract. To me, it sounds very much like take the money now and worry about the penalties later.

But best of luck to them. It may not be impossible, but it certainly isn't easy.

 

Yeah, the deal is all very vague. No real details as yet. 

If you check out the video above though, the technology does seem VERY impressive with a number of milestones past. 

Edited May 17, 20233 yr by martin-w

Financial penalties are also really hard to collect if the business goes bankrupt.

No way this will happen, useful fusion by 2028, sounds like a giant hoax.

17 hours ago, Noel said:

No way this will happen, useful fusion by 2028, sounds like a giant hoax.

 

Well, maybe not. 

Helion may fail, but I wouldn't define them as hoaxers. 

So far they've exceeded 100 million degrees, demonstrated magnetic energy recovery with 95% efficiency, compression fields greater than 10 Tesla, sustained plasma's and they've achieved a complete self supplied helium 3 fuel cycle. 

6 prototype reactors and currently building their seventh which will generate electricity. 

Personally, my money is on the little guys like these guys and General Fusion. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

4 hours ago, martin-w said:

Personally, my money is on the little guys like these guys and General Fusion. 

I hope you have lots of money as we won't be seeing any practical fusion for decades.  Reminds me of Theranos--in it for the venture capital and to help prove it won't be happening in any of their lifetimes.

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by Noel

18 minutes ago, Noel said:

I hope you have lots of money as we won't be seeing any practical fusion for decades.

 

Decades? How many decades are you talking about? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, how many? 

 You may not be aware of the progress being made. Are you saying Helion are lying regarding their progress? 

Helion may not be successful, but we certainly are much closer now than decades. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 20233 yr by martin-w

1 minute ago, martin-w said:

Decades? How many decades are you talking about? 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, how many? 

 You may not be aware of the progress being made. Are you saying Helion are lying regarding their progress? 

Helion may not be successful, but we certainly are much closer now than decades. 

2 or 3 if we're real lucky.  I'm saying the claims remind me of Theranos.