34 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

That's EXACTLY why I'd like the missions/campaigns feature built into the game.

what did you think of the ones XP11 and XP12 already ship with......

I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone ever mention them....

Edited June 26, 20232 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

Here is something already demonstrated in XP11 to Murmurs point. It was a start in that direction of mission based addon's by 3P and I am sure it will improve in XP12. 

 

Yes, absolutely - many of the helpful links in here demonstrate the interest & ability to add ad hoc missions from a number of parties.

I believe they'd all be far better, and far more popular, if the framework was in the base sim, with some templated missions/campaigns for noobs to get excited about.

And all of that would attract more paying customers to the sim than time spent on blended road edges.

From another perspective, which feature would add more aviation value to the sim...?

6 minutes ago, mSparks said:

what did you think of the ones XP11 and XP12 already ship with......

I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone ever mention them....

You mean like quick starts and training missions? I think they're a good start that needs a LOT more attention.

39 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

a. this is a thread about X-Plane in the X-Plane forums. It's not about what's coming in the next version of MSFS.

*chortling* So says the magnanimous poster of the oh-so-discrete YT link. Bet you really fought the urge to 'display as link instead', didn't you?

 

40 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

In re "stats"

I fully remember what was in the video regarding the aero updates, balloons aside. There wasn't much there. The list would be small and hardly a distraction to this XP thread. You claimed otherwise, so apparently have more details?

 

27 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You mean cute animations like blowing trees, chirping birds, evaporating puddles, regional autogen, wing flex, tire smoke, etc.

The birds can be seen chirping in XP? Where?! I clarified above that I was referring to less-than-AI balloons. Did they even move in 2002?? Or were they static scenery objects hanging in the air? Ok, ok. I'll also admit that that the cloth simulation was also cool to watch.

And another question during this thread hijack: was there any mention of the scenery gateway? Thought that was another major not-unpopular request that was supposed to come out like...last month?

46 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You mean like quick starts and training missions? I think they're a good start that needs a LOT more attention.

the flight school option on the main menu.

My experience of them is the same as all the other similar options.

Do them once or twice then they are far to boring to ever think about or do again.

nobody has really succeeded in adding replayability to scripted "missions", no one (except maybe ultima online or no mans sky) has succeed in doing open world well.

OK, maybe GTA5...

like, if we take the most recent demonstrations of "new":

how many flights will putting a powerline together with a helicopter stay interesting.

how many times will you watch a balloon fill before you never flight sim a balloon again.

The problem is they dont, they get boring real quick. It is this reason (imho) they havent had more attention in xplane despite already being around for years. There is no demand for them, and doing even a half decent job is time consuming and even more boring (since you need to e.g. keep testing putting the powerlines together long after normal people would have thrown their TV out the window.

TBH, there were some pretty huge bugs in the flight school when I tested the early XP12 developer alphas, I have no idea if they were fixed, but since Ive not seen anyone complain about them either they were or no one cares enough to complain.

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*chortling* So says the magnanimous poster of the oh-so-discrete YT link. Bet you really fought the urge to 'display as link instead', didn't you?

Why is using the default functionality of the board AND directly providing citation/source so Machiavellian? 

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I fully remember what was in the video regarding the aero updates, balloons aside.

Something something "...leading horses to water..."

It was clearly reviewed during Sebs portion of the preso. You'll have to re-view it until you see it, I guess...

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The birds can be seen chirping in XP? Where?! I clarified above that I was referring to less-than-AI balloons.

Red Herring. You referred to, and I quote, "...cute animations...". Surely I don't need to 'splain you...?

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I'll also admit that that the cloth simulation was also cool to watch.

There - was that really so difficult?

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And another question during this thread hijack:

a. It's MY thread, and...

b. YOU asked, and I quote, "...what's new...?".

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was there any mention of the scenery gateway?

I'm sure they're working on it just as hard as LR is on anti-aliasing.

Why the obsessive need to bash other sims?

2 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

From what I heard, they said they will have something out in the next few days from Sunday. So I would expect to look something out between today and tomorrow is my only guesstimate.

The time to have done it would be at the expo when everyone is paying attention, not after everyone has gone. I saw FSElite had them scheduled for an interview, but nothing so far. I'm on the lookout to see if it still happens.

I was also thinking Austin and Jorg might finally meet. 🙂. Friendly handshake.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I believe they'd all be far better, and far more popular, if the framework was in the base sim, with some templated missions/campaigns for noobs to get excited about.

I would say not only noobs. It has wider appeal. I've been simming since 98 and consider myself a serious simmer but I'm excited about the missions I saw. 

2 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

a. It's MY thread, and...

b. YOU asked, and I quote, "...what's new...?".

You're gonna have to "chew the fat" with krakin on all that. I simply wanted clarification on their original post claiming we would all be in awe of what was coming in the aero modeling. So, thermal buoyancy. Noted.

 

4 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Why the obsessive need to bash other sims?

Bashing? You mean asking questions about upcoming modeling techniques and pointing out flaws in arguments targeting XP on an XP forum in an XP thread? I can't help you with that south-end-of-a-north-bound-horse conclusion.

25 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I'm sure they're working on it just as hard as LR is on anti-aliasing.

so far into 06 testing it looks like the remaining issues there really were just vram pager related. there are some awesome 05 vs 06 screenshots floating around on discord, in oh so many ways 06 is shaping up to be as big an improvement visually over 05 as XP1200 was over XP1155....

 

Id have much preferred MS to focus on that tbh. and sort their VR and multi platform support out so people can actually use it natively on modern operating systems.

Maybe they know something I don't, and while I hope for all our sakes it works out well for them (at the very least it gets us all cheaper highly quality hardware) - but basing an entire sim relaunch on an xplane plugin with not even 3000 downloads a year doesnt seem that good of an idea to me...

Edited June 26, 20232 yr by mSparks

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

so far into 06 testing it looks like the remaining issues there really were just vram pager related.

I see some improvements in the clouds. The cloud looks better around the edges. They should have done the comparison under the same lighting conditions though.

 

12 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Id have much preferred MS to focus on that tbh.

Why? I thought you didn't use MSFS.

14 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

These types of features/functionalities baked into the sim, and open for 3PDs, is a big part of what makes DCS World so engaging (particularly the MP part of it where you can go up with / against dozens of people in the same scenario). An interesting example being flight demonstrations teams (a la Blue Angels/Thunderbirds/Red Arrows, et al).

If MP is your thing, DCS is certainly engaging, but I find SP as boring as it gets because of the need to constantly hunt for scenarios. Let's hope they get their dynamic campaign engine out in the foreseeable future.

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There is no demand for them, and doing even a half decent job is time consuming

Jorg just said that out of 12 million users, Missions & Careers are one of the most frequently requested features from end users. I don't think the users of MSFS are that much different from the users of X-Plane.

"time consuming" & "half decent" is EXACTLY the reason LR should do it. Of the XP user base, how many run seaplane/flying boat operations? So why do we need 3D water in a flight sim?

And again, aviation task/activities are far more germane than focusing on modeling the boundary between roads and grass (which, according to Austin recently, is exactly what LR are spending a lot of time on...).

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Do them once or twice then they are far to boring to ever think about or do again.

IoW: I'm sick of hamburgers - no need for me to try filet mignon.

In DCSW, there is quite an ecosystem built up around the missions/campaigns framework - both free and paid.

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nobody has really succeeded in adding replayability to scripted "missions", no one (except maybe ultima online or no mans sky) has succeed in doing open world well.

In DCSW, where it's a core sim feature, there are PLENTY of missions & campaigns that have randomization built in. And multi-player, obviously, is never the same thing twice.

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how many flights will putting a powerline together with a helicopter stay interesting.

And I'm not even talking about air combat - I, along with quite a few other folks, frequently fly logistics  & CSAR missions (which at the moment are mainly helo ops). Many times that's because the MP scenario requires it (or everyone loses), and sometimes just because we want a less intense experience but still want to do something requiring more skill than just pressing "TO/GA"...

And I can confidently state that ever more realistic scenario generation is always at the top of the list of DCS feature requests (just search for DCS Dynamic Campaign and you can see for yourself).

All this because the developers of the sim took the time to make missions / campaigns (and, of course AI) a core feature of the sim.

This is why we need to pay attention to what other sims are doing, and what is popular there.

 

43 minutes ago, brinx said:

The time to have done it would be at the expo when everyone is paying attention, not after everyone has gone. I saw FSElite had them scheduled for an interview, but nothing so far. I'm on the lookout to see if it still happens.

I was also thinking Austin and Jorg might finally meet. 🙂. Friendly handshake.

I would say not only noobs. It has wider appeal. I've been simming since 98 and consider myself a serious simmer but I'm excited about the missions I saw. 

Well said and Agreed, sir!

41 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Maybe they know something I don't. ...basing an entire sim relaunch on an xplane plugin with not even 3000 downloads a year doesnt seem that good of an idea to me...

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Well, you DO, because they shared it with all of us, but you somehow won't acknowledge it:

out of 12 million users, one of the most frequent requests is Missions/Campaigns.

If the XP plugin only does 3k a year, I'd say that's more a statement about that plugin than anything else.

20 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

If MP is your thing, DCS is certainly engaging, but I find SP as boring as it gets because of the need to constantly hunt for scenarios. Let's hope they get their dynamic campaign engine out in the foreseeable future.

Agree, but I'd say that at least there ARE scenarios/missions/campaigns to hunt for 🙂