Potential improvements for sky colors

[Alvega 2,125]

3 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

Why? Just backup the original executable file and in case the update checker says it has to reinstall the game at some point, just kill it with ALT+F4 and overwrite the modified file with the original one.

Yep, that's why I decided to go ahead and try it. 😉

[Sethos 4,516]

Not sure if it's just me but I just did the change and the overall result seems to have a green tint or green feel to the overall effect? It's hard to explain. My eye is seeing green.

[Biology 1,347]

13 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Not sure if it's just me but I just did the change and the overall result seems to have a green tint or green feel to the overall effect? It's hard to explain. My eye is seeing green.

Yes, that seems to be caused by multiple scattering not being enough. It's especially true for Bruneton's paper (which is used in MSFS) but even in XP12 which uses Hillaire's paper LR had to artificially boost the multiple scattering.

So the multiple scattering amount needs to be artificially increased during sunset / sunrise like in XP12, which will turn the green tint into yellow / orange and make the sunsets / sunrises much brighter just like real life.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Biology

[Bond 128]

28 minutes ago, Biology said:

Yes, that seems to be caused by multiple scattering not being enough. It's especially true for Bruneton's paper (which is used in MSFS) but even in XP12 which uses Hillaire's paper LR had to artificially boost the multiple scattering.

So the multiple scattering amount needs to be artificially increased during sunset / sunrise like in XP12, which will turn the green tint into yellow / orange and make the sunsets / sunrises much brighter just like real life.

From what I saw, if you increase the second value, the green tint no longer shows....

[Biology 1,347]

24 minutes ago, Bond said:

From what I saw, if you increase the second value, the green tint no longer shows....

Yes, but then you move away from the spectrally rendered ground truth. I think it's better to fix multiple scattering instead of tweaking the parameters without any physical basis. Even though the boost to the multiple scattering doesn't exactly have a physical basis either, at least the inaccuracy comes from the model's limitation itself and not due to inaccurate parameters being entered to the model. In other words, it's a better approach to tweak the model to look right when accurate parameters are used than tweaking the parameters to compensate for the inaccurate model. This way it can also be more easily tweaked by cross-referencing it to CIE standard skies.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Biology

[Bond 128]

16 minutes ago, Biology said:

Yes, but then you move away from the spectrally rendered ground truth. I think it's better to fix multiple scattering instead of tweaking the parameters without any physical basis. Even though the boost to the multiple scattering doesn't exactly have a physical basis either, at least the inaccuracy comes from the model's limitation itself and not due to inaccurate parameters being entered to the model. In other words, it's a better approach to tweak the model to look right when accurate parameters are used than tweaking the parameters to compensate for the inaccurate model. This way it can also be more easily tweaked by cross-referencing it to CIE standard skies.

Even though your values produce that green tint, it's miles better than default. 

So now we're stuck on waiting for asobo willingness in fixing this.

I wish they just hired you and be done with it 🙂.

[bobcat999 8,502]

Looks like this conversation is being closed down or restricted on the official forums now.

A community manager fired a warning shot about potentially breaking the installation (although shouldn't be a problem if the original file is backed up, like sensible people do), and then wanting no more talk about the subject.  Then talk of terms and conditions also cropped up.  It's to be expected of course; and the conversation will go to other platforms now.  I would expect a thread lock and maybe some post deletions over there at some stage with a request for no more talk about it.

The main thing is that the thread served it's purpose and got the improvement highlighted.  From what I have seen, although the devs and community managers don't like the talk about using the hex editor, it shows it does open up the possibility of modifications to the lighting system above what we initially talked about (referring to Biology's post above - light scattering etc.).

Also, as we know, as it is a simple case of just altering these numbers (and it is that simple), it could leave room for personalisation options, or even a slight randomised skies option like some programs used to offer in FSX / P3D.  All good stuff anyway!

@Bond  Welcome to the forum!  

Edited September 12, 2023 by bobcat999

[Bond 128]

7 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Looks like this conversation is being closed down or restricted on the official forums now.

A community manager fired a warning shot about potentially breaking the installation (although shouldn't be a problem if the original file is backed up, like sensible people do), and then wanting no more talk about the subject.  Then talk of terms and conditions also cropped up.  It's to be expected of course; and the conversation will go to other platforms now.  I would expect a thread lock and maybe some post deletions over there at some stage with a request for no more talk about it.

The main thing is that the thread served it's purpose and got the improvement highlighted.  From what I have seen, although the devs and community managers don't like the talk about using the hex editor, it shows it does open up the possibility of modifications to the lighting system above what we initially talked about (referring to Biology's post above - light scattering etc.).

Also, as we know, as it is a simple case of just altering these numbers (and it is that simple), it could leave room for personalisation options, or even a slight randomised skies option like some programs used to offer in FSX / P3D.  All good stuff anyway!

@Bond  Welcome to the forum!  

Thanks.

It's normal that they want to contain the issue but it would be better if they upped the communication regarding this fix as people are eager to get it done. This, maybe, would prevent people jumping on this hack...

[Biology 1,347]

26 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Looks like this conversation is being closed down or restricted on the official forums now.

A community manager fired a warning shot about potentially breaking the installation (although shouldn't be a problem if the original file is backed up, like sensible people do), and then wanting no more talk about the subject.  Then talk of terms and conditions also cropped up.  It's to be expected of course; and the conversation will go to other platforms now.  I would expect a thread lock and maybe some post deletions over there at some stage with a request for no more talk about it.

The main thing is that the thread served it's purpose and got the improvement highlighted.  From what I have seen, although the devs and community managers don't like the talk about using the hex editor, it shows it does open up the possibility of modifications to the lighting system above what we initially talked about (referring to Biology's post above - light scattering etc.).

Also, as we know, as it is a simple case of just altering these numbers (and it is that simple), it could leave room for personalisation options, or even a slight randomised skies option like some programs used to offer in FSX / P3D.  All good stuff anyway!

@Bond  Welcome to the forum!  

Hi, to be fair, it's not enough to back up the original file as if the modification is done at the wrong offset, it might cause unpredictable behavior and corrupt the entire installation, which is exactly why I don't recommend it. It's also possible that it might interfere with some antivirus programs as you're changing the .exe file and the original .exe file is signed. Lastly I really don't think the thread will be closed, they don't like the discussion about using a hex editor for the aforementioned reasons, but I think, or at least I hope, that this doesn't mean they will close the entire thread.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Biology

[bobcat999 8,502]

11 minutes ago, Biology said:

...Also I really don't think the thread will be closed, they only don't like the discussion about using a hex editor for the aforementioned reasons, but I think, or at least I hope that this doesn't mean they will close the entire thread.

No, well maybe in that case it would be best for them just to delete the posts containing the information about hex editing the file to prevent any difficulties.

In any case, I think things have moved on better than expected and the thread has served its purpose now.
Like @Bond said, I don't know why they don't just contact you directly with the knowledge you have.
I would say it is far more valuable to share it with them directly that on the public forums.

Edited September 12, 2023 by bobcat999

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Do you think Asobo will ever implement this in MSFS 2020 or even 2024? 

I would create a poll if I knew how ha! Not sure if you can in replies only? 

[Alvega 2,125]

2 hours ago, Sethos said:

Not sure if it's just me but I just did the change and the overall result seems to have a green tint or green feel to the overall effect? It's hard to explain. My eye is seeing green.

I used the values posted by user MortThe2nd on the official forum on my screenshots and I'm not seeing the green tint. Values are 0.00508 , 0.00318 , 0.0 if you want to try them.

[Sethos 4,516]

1 hour ago, Alvega said:

I used the values posted by user MortThe2nd on the official forum on my screenshots and I'm not seeing the green tint. Values are 0.00508 , 0.00318 , 0.0 if you want to try them.

Can give them a try later, thanks.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Sethos

[Flic1 998]

1 hour ago, Alvega said:

I used the values posted by user MortThe2nd on the official forum on my screenshots and I'm not seeing the green tint. Values are 0.00508 , 0.00318 , 0.0 if you want to try them.

Are you able to explain how to change these values?  I am able to open the .exe with HexEd and can find the offset but that is where I am lost. Not sure where these numbers go. Thanks!

[ConairMSFS 28]

Is there a way for MS store users to edit the file?

Tried messing around with permissions but without results, cannot even copy it to another location.

Thanks.