FSHUD beta: Do not say your opinion - you will be banned

[guenseli 1,606]

I'm in the FSHud beta since nearly the beginning.

I'm beta tester since a long time for several companies, like A2A, FSReborn, Hifi back then, SimStarter and so on.
But that is the first time I get banned for my opinion 😶

The tone of the FSHud dev was a bit rough from the beginning.

 

But now, after some weeks, where I can see, that FSHud got more and more bugs, I posted a thread with a video of the current state of FSHUD.
But have a look yourself: 

 

I'm sure, when you look at what FSHud currently produces, you would be also get a little bit frustrated.

 

So, after a few minutes I was banned from the beta forum (ok, can't understand if he do not like critics) and also from the official customer forum (I'm sure I can work this out as a paying customer with Flight1)

you can make your own opinion.

 

Over the years I was also in beta tests, where your honest opinion of a probably not so good product was not really accepted, or simply ignored.
But to ban a tester even from the official customer forum is another level.

(Just for the record: the FSHud betatest is an official one, every customer can apply, no NDA. So I can post this video here without any problems)

thx for your attention

Edited September 8, 2023 by guenseli

[Falconfly 62]

Hi, I recently posted a thread about ai as well and got a few replies. However suddenly the thread is disappeared!

[Ray Proudfoot 9,050]

If the developer cannot accept faults being found he’s unlikely to produce a quality product.

There’s no need to criticise though. Just describing how something didn’t work as expected is objective. Adding personal opinions may have upset him but really as a developer he needs to develop a thick skin.

[Falconfly 62]

I agree Ray. Unfortunately ATC has always been a sore thumb for simmers so any program that tries to mimic atc is always looked at very carefully. 
 

During my P3D days I loved voxatc. I just wish they launched it for msfs.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 815]

Hi @guenseli,

Maybe someone should tell the creator that the BETA TEAMs job is to find and report errors, issues, crashes and what-not. If he/she is going to ban those in the beta team that spot and report issues, How is the product suppose to develop into a stable addon if beta testers keep getting dumped for finding issues?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Ray Proudfoot
Edited to remove long quoted post.

[guenseli 1,606]

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Adding personal opinions may have upset him but really as a developer he needs to develop a thick skin.

Yes, I even do not await to tolerate my frustration.

But there are many more mature ways to solve that conflict instead of banning me instantly without any warning or discussion.
He just could have responded and maybe edit my initial post if its his "own" forum if he doesn't like what I write.
What is absolutely not acceptable is to ban me as paying customer from the normal forum.

 

At the end, my frustration about FSHud is now absolutely endless. I have no hope for a good product, whenever.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,050]

2 minutes ago, Falconfly said:

I agree Ray. Unfortunately ATC has always been a sore thumb for simmers so any program that tries to mimic atc is always looked at very carefully. 
 

During my P3D days I loved voxatc. I just wish they launched it for msfs.

ATC has always been the hardest thing to program in any flight sim. I still use Radar Contact in P3D but of course this is the MSFS forum so it’s not an option.

Looking at the video it seems to be a case of Ai not being cleared to line up and takeoff. In RC4 the program could look at the status of each Ai aircraft and issue appropriate instructions. I don’t think it ever tried to control Ai. That was left to the core sim engine.

I don’t know whether these various statuses are available in MSFS. You would hope so otherwise it makes the job of reacting to them extremely difficult if not impossible.

[guenseli 1,606]

Just now, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Maybe someone should tell the creator that the BETA TEAMs job is to find and report errors, issues, crashes and what-not. If he/she is going to ban those in the beta team that spot and report issues, How is the product suppose to develop into a stable addon if beta testers keep getting dumped for finding issues?

To be fair, it was a more general "rant" (not a rude rant) about my frustration.

When you watch that video, you will see an endless chain of bugs: crooked planes, AI not moving, Ai jams, AI making low level airport flyover and other really strange things.
Where to start at such a level of bugs? And this is after many, many month of development.
And this is only the basic version - there are so many features lacking (SPD separation, good vectoring, direct to's, just to name the basic ones) and the dev does not talk about any further roadmaps.

 

That was, why I was frustrated with FSHud beta after so many months

[Ray Proudfoot 9,050]

7 minutes ago, guenseli said:

But there are many more mature ways to solve that conflict instead of banning me instantly without any warning or discussion.
He just could have responded and maybe edit my initial post if its his "own" forum if he doesn't like what I write.
What is absolutely not acceptable is to ban me as paying customer from the normal forum.

Agreed, banning a paying customer is not wise. I would have expected a closed beta group separate from the user one. Hopefully you can contact the developer privately and request access to the user forum.

[mspencer 442]

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

ATC has always been the hardest thing to program in any flight sim. I still use Radar Contact in P3D but of course this is the MSFS forum so it’s not an option.

Looking at the video it seems to be a case of Ai not being cleared to line up and takeoff. In RC4 the program could look at the status of each Ai aircraft and issue appropriate instructions. I don’t think it ever tried to control Ai. That was left to the core sim engine.

I don’t know whether these various statuses are available in MSFS. You would hope so otherwise it makes the job of reacting to them extremely difficult if not impossible.

I get the sense from the AIG devs responses to some of the bugs with AI that controlling or injecting AI is still no easy task. In addition, SimConnect still has an issue where it won't render AI around you because it doesn't know where you are.

There is a possibility that this is a known issue that the dev has acknowledged and would explain, but not excuse, the response. 

There have been some whispers in the past about improvement to AI but I don't think it's coming in SU13. Issues like this, stacking up on the ramp in Atlanta, etc. concern me for BeyondATC/FSLTL which will heavily rely on these tools to be able to actually *control* the traffic.

 

Besides I got the squickies about FSHud as soon as the legion of word not allowed were over here posting on every update about how "wow" it was. It felt astroturfed.

[Fiorentoni 4,445]

Welcome to the club, @guenseli, I was banned too a couple of months ago and even got my FSHud account banned so I couldn't use the actual tool anymore, the tool I paid for. Luckily I was able to get a refund from flight1 who were visibly embarassed. Seems like not much has changed. I hope they get what they deserve in the long run.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,050]

23 minutes ago, mspencer said:

I get the sense from the AIG devs responses to some of the bugs with AI that controlling or injecting AI is still no easy task.

@Kaiii3 intimated as much in a post on his forum. It must be even harder when Ai is injected rather than data being held in BGLs where, for example, FSUIPC could build a table of Ai in a 80nm radius of your aircraft and that was how RC4 did its thing.

Whether the equivalent is an option in MSFS I have no idea but I’m sure John and Pete Dowson will have done their best to make it possible.

I can understand why injection is preferred as the Ai can then fly SIDs and STARs. Something not possible with BGL-based Ai.

[eslader 1,819]

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Maybe someone should tell the creator that the BETA TEAMs job is to find and report errors, issues, crashes and what-not.

That's true, but remember how modern internet users tend to behave in beta programs.

I was in the Kerbal Space Program early access program from almost day-1. Less than a month after the first fledgling alpha release came out, programmed by a single developer who had never developed a game before in his life, people were already howling for the guy's head. And that turned into one of the best games ever made.

Beta testing amongst software professionals is objective. Beta testing amongst a public beta tends more toward the obscene and vicious.  Not saying that's what OP did at all, but it's likely someone (well, many someones) did it, and at this point the dev might be smacking down anyone who blinks funny.  Which is still a bad move, but more understandable when you consider the abuse that's likely going on.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by eslader

[Kaiii3 1,983]

To make it simple: there is currently no way to fully control AI within MSFS. What FSHud amd BATC arw doing (AFAIK) is moving the airplane each frame...

Now imagin doing this for 200+ airplanes.....

[Bobsk8 12,904]

58 minutes ago, Kaiii3 said:

To make it simple: there is currently no way to fully control AI within MSFS. What FSHud amd BATC arw doing (AFAIK) is moving the airplane each frame...

Now imagin doing this for 200+ airplanes.....

People have been screaming for months about " The only good ATC is one that controls AI".  Well lots of luck with that concept, good ATC is hard enough to achieve without having to also properly control AI. My guess is that these developers have found that they bit off more than they can chew.