MS/Asobo: I so hope you dedicate the lion's share of the...

[Noel 4,649]

...purportedly big gains in performance coming in MSFS 2024 to greatly enhanced cloud density/resolution/depiction/morphologies.  Variety and morphology has been improved to a degree in recent updates, but the basics still missing surround low resolution voxel grids that can only be tweaked so much.   For me, cloud depiction does not not match the quality of ortho scenery.  I think with modern hardware we have now it should be possible to make substantial gains in this area.  I would value this w/ slider control over any other changes present in the 2024 release.  This arrival into KSEA was quite nice but reminds me of how much I would love to see higher resolution clouds in this same scene. 

And then this wonderment:  I really love this sim!  Adding SLC has amped the love up another couple notches!

 

Edited January 8 by Noel

[Krakin 6,305]

The other day I was watching Alpha Original's latest vid and he was getting high level clouds like this and I was surprised. They don't normally look like that since they're usually too transparent.

Sometimes something gets knocked into place and live weather pulls off a fluke lol. That being said, I don't think the majority of the performance should go to clouds. Remember they are now working with a more detailed CFD which can get resource heavy and more detailed scenery is going to need its fair share of resources too.

[btacon 2,014]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:00 AM, Noel said:

...purportedly big gains in performance coming in MSFS 2024 to greatly enhanced cloud density/resolution/depiction/morphologies.  Variety and morphology has been improved to a degree in recent updates, but the basics still missing surround low resolution voxel grids that can only be tweaked so much.   For me, cloud depiction does not not match the quality of ortho scenery.  I think with modern hardware we have now it should be possible to make substantial gains in this area.  I would value this w/ slider control over any other changes present in the 2024 release.  This arrival into KSEA was quite nice but reminds me of how much I would love to see higher resolution clouds in this same scene. 

And then this wonderment:  I really love this sim!  Adding SLC has amped the love up another couple notches!

 

 

I’ve been flying simulations for somewhere around  40+ years.  I’ve had them all I figure. Never, NEVER have I seen cloud depictions like the current depictions in the current release of MSFS. This ain’t P3D with Active Sky PictoClouds any more and I for one am quite happy.

-B

[Noel 4,649]

40 minutes ago, Krakin said:

I don't think the majority of the performance should go to clouds

For me, despite the fact they have done as well as I think they can w/ this model of cloud rendering and for what it is, it's decent. But I think it will take serious performance to advance this meaningfully forward unless there is another method to spin quality out of low resolution voxel grids, and they most certainly are.   Right now if I were to rate cloud quality, not so much weather quality just clouds as objects, if I gave the default scenery a score of 100, I'd have to give cloud depiction 30.  Again, not talking about clouds in the distance w/ beautiful lighting which is lovely.  So adding better quality scenery when it's already been so compelling as to garner all the users we seemingly have now, I don't think will get the payoff that upping cloud depiction will.  We spend most of our time in the sky and clouds.  CFD will put pressure on the CPU presumably, whereas I think cloud depiction may push the GPU much more.   I'm doubtful more detailed CFD will impact the sim much at all, secondary to multithreading enhancement.

I'm hoping they will use something like LOD, with a slider for cloud depiction.  When close up to clouds the resolution goes up, and tapers down the greater the distance from the viewer.   And we have the hardware to allow users to go there if they can.

Edited January 9 by Noel

[WestAir 2,533]

Unpopular Opinion, but I would take a reduction in cloud visuals if it meant an increase in weather realism. Freezing rain, lenticular clouds, moving fronts, hail and microbursts are way cooler, to me, than more voxel resolution. 

[Noel 4,649]

 

12 minutes ago, WestAir said:

Unpopular Opinion, but I would take a reduction in cloud visuals if it meant an increase in weather realism. Freezing rain, lenticular clouds, moving fronts, hail and microbursts are way cooler, to me, than more voxel resolution. 

Should not be either/or, and I hope we see those or some of those in 2024.  For cloud morphology I feel you really need resolution to work with.  Right now I think the reason we don't see better morphologies is very closely tied to this fundamental weakness.  Blurry, fuzzy, low resolution clouds.  Bring in the Cloud LOD slider for those who can exploit it.  My GPU now 3y old hovers around 50-65%.  Here is what some day we will have, and it takes particle density to get there, with some additional 3D shader magic to make it possible, which I photographed on a local ride last summer:

 

 

Edited January 9 by Noel

[JBDB-MD80 1,605]

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

 

Should not be either/or, and I hope we see those or some of those in 2024.  For cloud morphology I feel you really need resolution to work with.  Right now I think the reason we don't see better morphologies is very closely tied to this fundamental weakness.  Blurry, fuzzy, low resolution clouds.  Bring in the Cloud LOD slider for those who can exploit it.  My GPU now 3y old hovers around 50-65%.  Here is what some day we will have, and it takes particle density to get there, with some additional 3D shader magic to make it possible, which I photographed on a local ride last summer:

 

 

Dream on if that will ever happen on a computer game. Maybe in 2050 when 20,000$ machines may simulate it.

Edited January 9 by JBDB-MD80

[Republic DC9 242]

Somewhat disturbingly, my flightsim hobby has led me to question/critique even the REAL clouds above me!?

I was walking with my wife on a partly cloudy day and was disturbed at how FAKE looking the clouds above us were “these clouds look like MSFS clouds!?”

And they DID look a bit “off”...subpar...very sim like...but they were REAL clouds?

I’ve had similar experiences with the VASI lights driving home past KSBM Sheboygan, WI at night...first I panic that my Civic is “too low!” with all reds, then  I critique them...”Better intensity than MSFS but not as good as XP12’s....” 🙂

 

[Noel 4,649]

1 hour ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Dream on if that will ever happen on a computer game. Maybe in 2050 when 20,000$ machines may simulate it.

More in that direction is the goal is all I'm saying.  Dial it up to accommodate today's hardware with a slider.

[JBDB-MD80 1,605]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

More in that direction is the goal is all I'm saying.  Dial it up to accommodate today's hardware with a slider.

Study the aircraft first with the flight model and physics and worry about scenery last.

[scotchegg 4,362]

8 hours ago, btacon said:

Never, NEVER have I seen cloud depictions like the current depictions in the current release of MSFS. This ain’t P3D with Active Sky PictoClouds any more and I for one am quite happy.

I felt like that on release of MSFS, and right up to the carnage that was visited on the clouds with SU5/7. Now, I feel they're frequently eclipsed by DCS' clouds (maybe not fair because there's no live weather (?)) and Visual XP.

I also hope a lot of resources are devoted to their depiction in 2024.

[UAL4life 283]

With Asobo so far up MeteoBlue and others you know what, there’s very little chance we will see the weather engine we dream about. 

[fsiscool 276]

8 hours ago, Republic DC9 said:

And they DID look a bit “off”...subpar...very sim like...but they were REAL clouds?

Exactly, real weather sometimes looks so bad, that I wish there was a "historical weather" feature for it!

[JYW 2,994]

18 hours ago, Republic DC9 said:

I was walking with my wife on a partly cloudy day and was disturbed at how FAKE looking the clouds above us were “these clouds look like MSFS clouds!?”

That's so funny to read that.  My son and I have a long standing joke when we're walking the dog out on the fields.. except we refer to the clouds sometimes looking like something much worse than MSFS!   -  "Look Dad, there are FS9 clouds in the sky again!". 😄    We notice it about once a month... where the sky colour looks a really fake, pastel-like blue colour and the clouds themselves look like little Bob Ross clouds!    Odd isn't it.   We expect that real clouds should look "super hi rez!", sometimes forgetting that real clouds have no resolution at all.   Resolution is a digital sampling measure.   The clouds are 100% analogue, baby! 😁

[Republic DC9 242]

On 1/10/2024 at 1:01 PM, JYW said:

That's so funny to read that.  My son and I have a long standing joke when we're walking the dog out on the fields.. except we refer to the clouds sometimes looking like something much worse than MSFS!   -  "Look Dad, there are FS9 clouds in the sky again!". 😄    We notice it about once a month... where the sky colour looks a really fake, pastel-like blue colour and the clouds themselves look like little Bob Ross clouds!    Odd isn't it.   We expect that real clouds should look "super hi rez!", sometimes forgetting that real clouds have no resolution at all.   Resolution is a digital sampling measure.   The clouds are 100% analogue, baby! 😁

Glad I’m not the only one who has experienced this! 🙂

I also swear I’ve detected a bit of “stutter” while driving in busy areas, but that’s a different topic!