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Ray Proudfoot

FSL Concorde - Core usage confusion

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I have had to reduce Ai numbers in order to keep fps to 30 with FS Labs Concorde at Heathrow. But monitoring core usage with MSI Afterburner / RTSS it shows the three main cores used in P3D v5.3HF2 are not fully utilised so 30 should be achievable without having to adjust anything.

Look at the attached screenshot. You'll notice cores 4 and 5 are at 100% most of the time. But the RTSS readout shows far less usage. Around 57-60%. How is this possible? Here are my Job Scheduler settings...

[JobScheduler]
AffinityMask=16777215
P3DCoreAffinityMask=16777215
MainThreadScheduler=6
RenderThreadScheduler=2
FrameWorkerThreadScheduler=4

If I examine the Affinity Mask settings by right-clicking the executable in Task Manager - Details it shows all 24 cores in use which marries up with the above values.

I want to get opinions here before I raise the issue over there.

Concorde_CoreUsage.jpg


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have had to reduce Ai numbers in order to keep fps to 30

I'm also puzzled by that behavior. Do these usages change if you change AI percentage?

Since I only cared about performance in my Win10 desktop, what does the shaded area mean? Core 4 looks loaded up to 30-40% if we see the bold blue area; but the shaded area goes up to 100%.


Best regards,
Luis Hernández 20px-Flag_of_Colombia.svg.png20px-Flag_of_Argentina.svg.png

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@Luis Hernandez, i haven’t tried comparing after changing Ai.

I’m still trying to understand the discrepancy between what the Task Manager display shows compared to the RTSS readouts.

The shaded area represents core usage for each of the 24 in use. With six visible in each of the first two rows it shows usage for cores 0 to 11. Only cores 0 and 2 look comparable. The rest are way out.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have had to reduce Ai numbers in order to keep fps to 30 with FS Labs Concorde at Heathrow.

Bottleneck somewhere maybe Ray ?

Have you checked that your 32Gb Ram is actually running at 6KMhz ?

Edited by Sparkrite

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30 minutes ago, Sparkrite said:

Bottleneck somewhere maybe Ray ?

Have you checked that your 32Gb Ram is actually running at 6KMhz ?

It’s a professionally built PC by a reputable British company - Chillblast. I’m sure the memory is fine.

I’m going to load the PMDG737 tomorrow and do a comparison. Why would the OS and a third party utility report such different values? I’ll know tomorrow if it’s only happening with Concorde or all aircraft.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’m sure the memory is fine.

No harm in checking though ?

For such a powerful machine one would expect to be able to quite easily maintain 30fps even at EGLL.

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20 minutes ago, Sparkrite said:

No harm in checking though ?

For such a powerful machine one would expect to be able to quite easily maintain 30fps even at EGLL.

I don’t know how to. I have 140+ AIG Ai at Heathrow. PMDG737 can cope, just.

Can you explain the numbers and the histogram anomaly?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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7 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Can you explain the numbers and the histogram anomaly?

I trust Task Manager. What specifically is RTSS reporting, and at what interval?

Cheers


Luke Kolin

I make simFDR, the most advanced flight data recorder for FSX, Prepar3D and X-Plane.

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5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t know how to.

Right-click the Taskbar and select Task Manager. Select Performance and click Memory. Here you can check RAM speed .

6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have 140+ AIG Ai at Heathrow. PMDG737 can cope, just.

I know that, but still.......

 

6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Can you explain the numbers and the histogram anomaly?

No, not offhand, it's a strange one alright. However very hard to be difinitive when just seeing 'frozen' moments.

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57 minutes ago, Luke said:

I trust Task Manager. What specifically is RTSS reporting, and at what interval?

Cheers

RTSS is reporting what is delivered by MSI Afterburner. Are you familiar with those? The reporting interval is 1 second I think.

56 minutes ago, Sparkrite said:

Right-click the Taskbar and select Task Manager. Select Performance and click Memory. Here you can check RAM speed .

I know that, but still.......

No, not offhand, it's a strange one alright. However very hard to be difinitive when just seeing 'frozen' moments.

Thanks. I’ll report back tomorrow. Things may become clearer once I’ve tested with the PMDG. I’ll position at the same gate and time so it’s as accurate as possible.

Concorde is a huge consumer of resources. When it’s initialising its systems RAM usage exceeds 25Gb. Later on, close to pushback, it drops to 15Gb. There are specialist DLLs that load all the systems including all sounds. The Virtual Crew read out all the checklists and responses. You, the user, just do what the Captain was responsible for.

It’s unlike any other aircraft.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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@Sparkrite, confirmed memory is running at 6000MHz.

Here's the equivalent screenshot for the PMDG737 at the same stand. It's using core 6 mostly which I have opted for over core 0 which I leave to the OS. There are 126 Ai on the ground but some will be at EGKK and maybe EGSS which are inside the 80nm bubble.

Now another with Ai at zero for the 737. Finally Concorde with no Ai.

Comparing PMDG with Concorde the latter is significantly more resource hungry. So whilst I can expect to maintain 30fps with the PMDG it's not possible with Concorde.

The refresh rate in Afterburner is 1000ms - same as Task Manager. I'm still confused about the apparent discrepancy between what % usage the two processes report.

 

PMDG737_CoreUsage.jpg

PMDG737_NoAi_CoreUsage.jpg

Concorde_NoAi_CoreUsage.jpg


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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On 2/6/2024 at 6:56 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have had to reduce Ai numbers in order to keep fps to 30 with FS Labs Concorde at Heathrow. But monitoring core usage with MSI Afterburner / RTSS it shows the three main cores used in P3D v5.3HF2 are not fully utilised so 30 should be achievable without having to adjust anything.

Look at the attached screenshot. You'll notice cores 4 and 5 are at 100% most of the time. But the RTSS readout shows far less usage. Around 57-60%. How is this possible? Here are my Job Scheduler settings...

[JobScheduler]
AffinityMask=16777215
P3DCoreAffinityMask=16777215
MainThreadScheduler=6
RenderThreadScheduler=2
FrameWorkerThreadScheduler=4

If I examine the Affinity Mask settings by right-clicking the executable in Task Manager - Details it shows all 24 cores in use which marries up with the above values.

I want to get opinions here before I raise the issue over there.

Concorde_CoreUsage.jpg

I am assuming that you have hyperthreading disabled, based on only seeing 24 processors in the task manager.  With HT enabled you should see 32.

The three thread scheduler settings in the P3D config are based on numbering the available processors from 1 upwards, where the task manager numbers them from 0.

So MainThreadScheduler=6 puts the sim's main thread on the sixth available processor, which is core 5 in the task manager, and it's pretty much firewalled at 100%.  That's why you're getting slowdowns.

I am curious as to why core 4 is so heavily loaded--are you using a traffic injector or other third-party program that might account for that?

As to the difference between RTSS and the Task Manager performance monitor, there is a good bit of internet chatter about problems with third-party monitoring programs--RTSS in particular--after Win 11 22H2 released.  I use both Process Lasso and HWInfo, and both seem to track in agreement with the task manager.


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On 2/6/2024 at 5:56 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

[JobScheduler]

AffinityMask=16777215
P3DCoreAffinityMask=16777215
MainThreadScheduler=6
RenderThreadScheduler=2
FrameWorkerThreadScheduler=4

If I examine the Affinity Mask settings by right-clicking the executable in Task Manager - Details it shows all 24 cores in use which marries up with the above values.

Your AffinityMask and P3DCoreAffinityMask value of 16777215 places the sim on all cores, yet in a later post above you note that you're leaving Core 0 to the OS.  Also, all of your Task Manager screenshots above show that your E Cores are doing little if anything... they're in the "dirt nap" mode😁.  Which is in contrast (all 24 cores in use) to what you noted when you right-clicked the (P3D) executable in Task Manager - Details.  The fact your E Cores are not being used may be a factor in your very acceptable low CPU temps.

What led you to choose Core 6 as the MainThreadScheduler?

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2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

I am assuming that you have hyperthreading disabled, based on only seeing 24 processors in the task manager.  With HT enabled you should see 32.

Yes, primarily to keep temps lower. FSL Concorde runs hotter than the PMDG737.

2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

The three thread scheduler settings in the P3D config are based on numbering the available processors from 1 upwards, where the task manager numbers them from 0.

Really? I thought LM started at zero. The default values for the three main threads were originally 0 2 and 4. When I was having lockups I took LM advice and switched 0 to 6. They suggest that in the SDK if you wanted to keep 0 for the OS.

2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

So MainThreadScheduler=6 puts the sim's main thread on the sixth available processor, which is core 5 in the task manager, and it's pretty much firewalled at 100%.  That's why you're getting slowdowns.

That only happens with Concorde. With FSL running DLLs when that aircraft is loaded I suspect that is the reason plus being at my heaviest airport.

2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

I am curious as to why core 4 is so heavily loaded--are you using a traffic injector or other third-party program that might account for that?

I’m running AIG Traffic Controller but most of my AIG aircraft are loaded via BGLs. I’d be amazed if TC was responsible for all that activity. But look at the equivalent histogram for the PMDG737. Nowhere near as busy but TC is still running. The difference seems to be down to Concorde.

2 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

As to the difference between RTSS and the Task Manager performance monitor, there is a good bit of internet chatter about problems with third-party monitoring programs--RTSS in particular--after Win 11 22H2 released.  I use both Process Lasso and HWInfo, and both seem to track in agreement with the task manager.

Ah, that’s interesting. The monitoring is setup in Afterburner with RTSS used as a display. I still have HWInfo. Can that display something similar to RTSS?

To be honest I could live without RTSS now my system has stabilised. It’s only Concorde that pushes it to the limit and a small reduction in Ai traffic from 100 to 85 ensures I can maintain 30fps even at the busiest airports.

Bob, is enabling HT worth it in respect of increased performance or am I likely to hit temp problems?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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34 minutes ago, lownslo said:

Your AffinityMask and P3DCoreAffinityMask value of 16777215 places the sim on all cores, yet in a later post above you note that you're leaving Core 0 to the OS. 

I’m sure I’ve read in these pages assigning all cores to P3D is the correct method. The individual main three threads can then be assigned to specific cores. LM recommend 2 and 4 are not changed but suggest the one assigned to MainThreadScheduler can be changed from 0 to 6. Seems sensible to keep the OS clear.

37 minutes ago, lownslo said:

The fact your E Cores are not being used may be a factor in your very acceptable low CPU temps.

I turned off HT to keep temps lower. Would enabling HT with the extra 8 E cores improve performance given I limit fps to 30? Are those E cores improving performance? How much does it impact on increased temps?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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