Out of all the annoying addons, this might be my least favorite. Not because they don't do as claimed, but because there are simply SO MANY OF THEM. I know there was a marketplace addon recently that charged money to do a more "global" "water fix" but I refused to pay money for a product that vaguely claims such a global range of "fixes"  

#1. This is obviously a core issue within the sim with a laundry list of addons addressing the issue individually..  Why hasn't MS addressed it themselves?

#2. Is there a true more comprehensive addon that addresses this instead of collecting a fragmented collection of addons, or tossing up $$$ where the results will vary?

#3: We don't know when any of these fixes become redundant or counter productive because MSFS never addresses the issue with any update. 

Edited February 6, 20242 yr by styckx

As someone who spent a good couple of hundred hours creating one of those "annoying addons", here's my take on the issue. It all boils down to one word:

DATA (or lack thereof). Plus the way MS/Asobo interpret some of that data.

From my observations, the hydrological dataset in MSFS is largely derived from OpenStreetMap (OSM). The fidelity of that dataset varies significantly from region to region: from water details that have meter-accuracy to rivers and lakes that have kilometer-long zig-zag segments.

I have no idea where MSFS gets its terrain model(s) from, but again, it varies in detail from region to region. Not surprisingly, hydrology and terrain in MSFS don't always match … let me rephrase that … almost never match!

One additional complaint I have is the way MS/Asobo interpret some of the hydrology. The OSM dataset differentiates permanent from non-permanent water bodies (eg. salt lakes). MSFS appears not to take this into account.

To answer your question(s). Until MS/Asobo find a common/matching dataset, the problem will persist. I have not much hope that 2024 will be any different, but I'll be ecstatic if it is!

 

5 hours ago, gunther said:

As someone who spent a good couple of hundred hours creating one of those "annoying addons", here's my take on the issue. It all boils down to one word:

DATA (or lack thereof). Plus the way MS/Asobo interpret some of that data.

From my observations, the hydrological dataset in MSFS is largely derived from OpenStreetMap (OSM). The fidelity of that dataset varies significantly from region to region: from water details that have meter-accuracy to rivers and lakes that have kilometer-long zig-zag segments.

I have no idea where MSFS gets its terrain model(s) from, but again, it varies in detail from region to region. Not surprisingly, hydrology and terrain in MSFS don't always match … let me rephrase that … almost never match!

One additional complaint I have is the way MS/Asobo interpret some of the hydrology. The OSM dataset differentiates permanent from non-permanent water bodies (eg. salt lakes). MSFS appears not to take this into account.

To answer your question(s). Until MS/Asobo find a common/matching dataset, the problem will persist. I have not much hope that 2024 will be any different, but I'll be ecstatic if it is!

 

You do see where this becomes annoying? I can't keep track of "water fixes" There are so many of them and at times they overlap

Heck, just 16hrs ago this was released. 

https://flightsim.to/file/68741/hawaii-pearl-harbor-water-fix

And if you search FlightSim.to for "Water Fix" there is literally 10 pages of results. It's ridiculous. 

Edited February 7, 20242 yr by styckx

Good watermasks have to be done painstakingly almost pixel by pixel to be perfect.  I've only made scenery for a few islands in FSX and they can take hundreds of hours to get right (or to my satisfaction).  In time AI will be able to do a better job, but for now, it's a case of users having be patience to do individual areas by hand.

I know that ASOBO would like to impliment tides as well, which will bring even more challenges 

Watermasking is not difficult, but it is very time consuming.

On the subject of water, I do wish that ASOBO could do something about the colour of the water where it is not blue at all, such as most if Northern Europe where a lot of it is grey or muddy brown.

40 minutes ago, cianpars said:

On the subject of water, I do wish that ASOBO could do something about the colour of the water where it is not blue at all, such as most if Northern Europe where a lot of it is grey or muddy brown.

Same here. To be fair, after enduring the ever-present azure blue water of P3D, MSFS is somewhat of an improvement.

However, the OG Horizon Sim with their UK photographic VFR scenery for FS9 had selectable water options ranging from very dark blue, green, grey, brown and even black for lakes, reservoirs and rivers.

There was also this add-on from Flight1: https://www.flight1software.com/showcase/flightenviro/

That was over 15 years ago. Surely something similar, but adaptable on-the-fly and with a greater range of user preferences should be possible now?

 

Edited February 7, 20242 yr by F737MAX

Waters (all kind) forests in msfs are just an ai guess;  those were far more precise using older simulators as fsx or p3d where far more precise data could be used in the sim even for large areas; and as already mentioned; corrections of areas do take very long time to build; it is all hand made; point by point in most of those patches.

Edited February 7, 20242 yr by arsenal82

I just got  back into Flight Simulation after 15 years out of it.

While MSFS has improved in so many ways, I was shocked and disappointed to see that water, especially inland, hasn’t improved that much at all.

10 hours ago, NigeUK23 said:

I just got  back into Flight Simulation after 15 years out of it.

While MSFS has improved in so many ways, I was shocked and disappointed to see that water, especially inland, hasn’t improved that much at all.

You will find that water colour now reflects the sky better so will for example change colour in thick cloud.  Also, you will notice the sea state and waves change if you ramp the wind up a bit.  It's not perfect but still improves over time.  I wonder how much better it will be in msfs2024.

I think the AI algorithm used to create water masks could probably be improved a little, but AI overall will get better and better over time.

I may be completely 'out of my depth' here in regard to the meaning of global water fixes being addressed in this thread, but here are my comparative images of pre and post SU15. (Location: Approaching NZAA New Zealand).  I'm pretty pleased with this type of 'water fix' at least.  

 

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP9v9yYnqG7OfWhPOzDDFDzgOkqcMYJMIeJfTYa

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM6wn9tI6-hEy0s8tJNbxDsu_WdZHzHM4ovzO5u

Cheers

 

Terry

Edited June 15, 20241 yr by Lord Farringdon

Error 404 on both of those links.

19 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Error 404 on both of those links.

Word not allowed! 

Thanks Chris. Do any of these work? 

 

https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczOFo84X_W5Biyo4QaUR158710KveQLNiT7g-nPUVeY4flgPl_d0blIW=w3153-h1902-s-no-gm?authuser=0

https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczNoY0ALN2u_MpEcsZ7IXqLsjyycpiWOwb2wz_v-9w3cfgDsbREdPGRw=w3236-h1977-s-no-gm?authuser=0

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qNkyekwnE9MvLBWt6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UoDnWAHJj8HXhVz48

 

Cheers

Terry

 

Edited June 16, 20241 yr by Lord Farringdon

The first two give me a grey and white NO ENTRY sign on a white background. The last two links work fine.

Edited June 16, 20241 yr by Christopher Low