Flickering PMDG glass cockpits w/ panning w/ Nv FG?

[Cpt_Piett 4,817]

22 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

That looks like to low fps, you should be above 30 (60 FG) for it to be smooth when panning, i'm at 70-90 fps with FG and it is smooth as butter for me, but I don't fly the 737.

Sorry, I don't understand. FPS is 117, reported by the RTSS overlay...

[verbal 106]

I eliminated tearing by running my monitor at its full abilities (2k @ 165hz) and making sure v-sync is checked in sim.

That plus FG and some other select settings in nvidia control panel has my sim working and looking very good.

I plan on flying an Australian domestic route this afternoon in the PMDG 738 so will hopefully see the great results continue. 

Apologies for the thread hijack.  

Edited February 18 by verbal

[Ixoye 1,837]

45 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Sorry, I don't understand. FPS is 117, reported by the RTSS overlay...

Is it like that with all aircrafts? it should be smooth at (58.5) 117 fps.

[Cpt_Piett 4,817]

1 hour ago, Ixoye said:

Is it like that with all aircrafts? it should be smooth at (58.5) 117 fps.

Yes, all aircraft. Not sure if perhaps we are misunderstanding each other here. The "tearing" shown in the video I posted (with FG on) is supposedly an inherent consequence with FG, as discussed in the forum post I linked to. It becomes more pronounced with low native FPS and fast movements (like panning). 

Researching this issue further, I came over an old video from Digital Foundry discussing FG/G-sync/V-sync. When I forced V-sync on in NCP, the screen tearing issues are gone. I never thought of doing this, as I thought of G-sync/V-sync as an either/or scenario. 

To confuse things further, Digital Foundry seems to have discovered a negative consequence of the G-sync/V-sync combo in MSFS, described as uneven pacing which can result in micro-stutters... 🤷‍♂️

Like I mentioned above, discussing various type of artefacts can be challenging, as it might be hard to describe using words. It's quite possible that the issues I'm experiencing are not the same as Noel's (which he describes as flickering) or those posting on the official forum thread I referred to. 

Also, there could be difficulties showing these phenomena in recorded videos, due to potential limitations in video recording software. E.g. Xbox game bar (which I used in the video above) only allows 60FPS max. Also, when I uploaded to Imgur, the video quality is reduced substantially. 

Edited February 19 by Cpt_Piett

[MrBitstFlyer 3,896]

5 hours ago, David Mills said:

You guys need to make clear that you're not talking about built-in Frame Generation for Nvidia 4000 series cards

Using the word 'mod' makes it obvious we are not talking about 4000 series cards.  Mentioning graphics artifacts etc also makes it obvious we are not talking about 4000 cards.

[micstatic 4,340]

6 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I also removed it for the reasons you stated.  I also went back to TAA because of the slight bluriness of DLSS.

Back to my previous stutter free and smooth 33 FPS.  

DLSS is terrible.  I have it off.  But TAA on.  I have a Gsync ultimate display with vsync on in NCP.  This gives me a very nice overall package.  I have a minor amount of artifacts.  But minor is the key word.  I guess we all have different setups.  For me I'm thrilled with what I have.  Over the years I've had ups and downs.  But right now this is the best I've had.  

[brucewtb 250]

I have a 9900 CPU and a 4090 GPU with FG enabled but see none of the artifacts described by the OP apart from very minor stuttering when rapidly panning at the usual suspect high end airports - no where else..  I also use TAA and have vsync enabled in the NCP with  frames locked in the NCP to my 49" 4K Sony TVs 60hz refresh rate. This setup works very well for me - so much so that I wonder what I would gain by a CPU upgrade apart from getting my base frame rate (without FG) at high density airports into the mid 40s.  But with the frames I see limited to 60 by my TV I might not see any improvement.

Bruce

[Noel 4,563]

My bad...😬

I installed the beast late yesterday, and maybe 2 days ago had just installed the latest NV driver and I think that set my mind up to ignore the fact the 4090 is not the 3080Ti I just installed the latest driver for!   So cleared the DX Shader cache again a bit ago after getting home and did the clean install of the latest driver which I think just released yesterday.  Long and short:  all's well now w/ regard to these artifacts and moreover very happy to report two other realities:

1. I'm able to run low native (25fps) and see 50fps.  So that's great because it gives me much more headroom for LOD and so forth.  CPU temp now 46-48C down from 56C.  And more great still...
2. CapFrameX validates ultra low FTV to boot.  

Sorry for crying uncle too fast.   It was this thread that popped up that left me thinking FG must be borked at some level:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/flickering-when-frame-generation-is-turned-on/609114

Anyway, all good, as you all already knew!

Cheers

[Noel 4,563]

9 hours ago, verbal said:

The only flickering I have seen or "suffered" was in the cockpit of all planes, most noticeably the PMDG 738 and the Horizon 789, which was easily fixed by turning off bloom in the sim. 

The new driver fixed the worst problem of a couple that were happening.  The remaining problem of white text in the FMCs against the dark background will shimmy a little, but it's not bad at all.  Yesterday the entire glass panel shook from side to side.  The flickering out the window to the edge of the runway is gone now too.  I can't put my finger on it but turning bloom off did help overall some, but modest in comparison to the driver update impact.

Thanks

[Noel 4,563]

4 hours ago, micstatic said:

DLSS is terrible.  I have it off.  But TAA on.  I have a Gsync ultimate display with vsync on in NCP.  This gives me a very nice overall package.  I have a minor amount of artifacts.  But minor is the key word.  I guess we all have different setups.  For me I'm thrilled with what I have.  Over the years I've had ups and downs.  But right now this is the best I've had.  

I concur with this, and add it's breathed new life into my CPU.  I still have a minor amount of artifacts and minor is accurate.

Cheers

[Ixoye 1,837]

14 hours ago, micstatic said:

I have a Gsync ultimate display with vsync on in NCP. 

Why do you use V-Sync if you have a G-Sync monitor? V-Sync only comes in play if your fps are higher than your monitors refresh rate, if your fps are higher just cap your frames three fps lower than your monitors refresh rate in NCP instead, the artifacts you have may be due to using both sync methods at the same time.

Edited February 19 by Ixoye

[Noel 4,563]

17 hours ago, Ixoye said:

I saw that you have the same monitor as I have, so bump up the Render Scale to 130 now that you have the power and VRAM to do it, the image quality will improve a lot.

Curious what refresh rate you set on your LG screen.  If at 100Hz, you set NVCP Max Rate at 97?  Or what is it 60hz max rate 57?  I'm still having less than ideal flicker in glass panels only but it's tolerable and I have to assume others here have this as well.  I will try your method next and will guess you're still getting the same flicker but won't know until I try it.  Here's yesterday's FTV capture that demonstrates excellence even w/ FG enabled.  I'll do a capture using your method next...

[Ixoye 1,837]

11 minutes ago, Noel said:

Curious what refresh rate you set on your LG screen.  If at 100Hz, you set NVCP Max Rate at 97?  Or what is it 60hz max rate 57?  I'm still having less than ideal flicker in glass panels only but it's tolerable and I have to assume others here have this as well.  I will try your method next and will guess you're still getting the same flicker but won't know until I try it.  Here's yesterday's FTV capture that demonstrates excellence even w/ FG enabled.  I'll do a capture using your method next...

My LG is at 144hz, so I cap at 141 and leave 3 fps as buffer, I have some minor flicker when panning fast as I think everyone have, even without FG in DX11.

Edited February 19 by Ixoye

[Cpt_Piett 4,817]

2 hours ago, Ixoye said:

Why do you use V-Sync if you have a G-Sync monitor? V-Sync only comes in play if your fps are higher than your monitors refresh rate, if your fps are higher just cap your frames three fps lower than your monitors refresh rate in NCP instead, the artifacts you have may be due to using both sync methods at the same time.

I just realised yesterday that forcing V-sync on in NCP combined with G-sync produces much less screen tearing. Digital Foundry recommends this and consider activating G-sync a 2-step process: 1. Activate G-Sync on both full-screen and window mode 2. Force V-Sync on. Of course V-sync should be left off in the sim. 

There will still be the inherent FG-related artefacts related to the AI-inserted frames, nothing to do about that except perhaps avoiding super-fast panning and tweaking the system for the highest native fps possible. 

Edited February 19 by Cpt_Piett

[Cpt_Piett 4,817]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Curious what refresh rate you set on your LG screen.  If at 100Hz, you set NVCP Max Rate at 97?  Or what is it 60hz max rate 57?  I'm still having less than ideal flicker in glass panels only but it's tolerable and I have to assume others here have this as well.  I will try your method next and will guess you're still getting the same flicker but won't know until I try it.  Here's yesterday's FTV capture that demonstrates excellence even w/ FG enabled.  I'll do a capture using your method next...

The way I do it is to set native monitor refresh rate in NCP. Nvidia reflex (defaults to on whilst using FG in MSFS settings) should take care of the rest. For added peace of mind though one can limit FPS to 3 lower than native monitor refresh rate using either NCP or something else (I use RTSS).

If one suffers from severe paranoia - set low latency mode to ultra (prioritizes latency by fully minimizing queued frames - in addition minimizes V-sync latency when both V-sync and G-sync are enabled). I've got mine set to off as reflex should handle this. 

DLSS3 which was introduced in MSFS shortly after the RTX4000-series launched, it's essentially FG+DLSS+reflex combined. 

Btw thanks for the thread Noel - even though you solved the issue yourself, I have learned a lot about FG and fine-tuning the settings in the last few days!

Oh - and by the way I think you just set the Avsim record for FTV 😄 

Edited February 19 by Cpt_Piett