Is this a sign of the times or just Boeing?

[birdguy 3,943]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/26/former-boeing-employee-speaks-out-00142948

Noel

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

Years ago we had a discussion about Quality Assurance and Leadership right here at AVSIM, and I dropped a few comments that people found difficult to believe.. until they were handed the direct facts. I sat back and watched Boeing and other defense contractors go from bad to worse.  This guy is solidly correct, it's a leadership problem, all the way leadership problem, which (as we proved years ago here on AVSIM) it started with the changes that Bill Clinton and Al Gore made with Government procurement and contracting, which where given to the defense side of Boeing and which quickly made it's way to the civilian side. I don't see how they can possibly correct this in the present day environment where a person's feelings and sexual preferences take center stage over work and quality, with the governments backing!  Shoot, even the Department of Defense (I'm both retired Navy and retired again from DoD where I worked quality assurance on defense contracts) has it's priorities all whacked out.  The problems have worked themselves into even the smallest part of everything.

 

 

[FBW737 514]

When it comes to profit there is no moral imperative.

I don't recall the source. Allegedly, When a commercial airliner crashes as a result of a design error the calculation carried out is to determine which is cheaper. A) recalling all the aircraft and fixing the problem and changing all the production line stuff and parts to prevent the problem happening again. OR B) Calculating how many times this same problem will cause the loss of an aircraft and the lives of the passengers on board over the serviceable life of the model and the ensuing liability cost.

The industry apparently chooses the cheaper of the two without consideration for the fact that A does not involve any further loss of life.

Bottom line: Their profits are vastly more important than your life. That's how much the Airline industry cares about safety.

[dave2013 1,140]

I'll second what the previous posters stated, but I'll add this:

Yes, the leadership and management are a big part of the problem, but the real problem is that it's all about the money.  Profit takes precedence over any other consideration, especially in the USA where our entire society is based on commerce.  There are advantages to being a nation based almost solely on commerce, but there are also downsides, like unbridled greed, which can insinuate itself, for example, into manufacturing of airplanes where lives are at stake.  Healthcare is another example, but that's off topic and a whole other can of worms.

The FAA, like so many other govt. agencies, is a corrupt revolving door operation with former airline executives working there, and thus will not do its job as taking action would cut into profits, and that's all that matters to these people.

Dave

[edpatino 1,971]

I think the results speak for themselves. No need to speculate.

[birdguy 3,943]

2 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Yes, the leadership and management are a big part of the problem, but the real problem is that it's all about the money. 

In other words dedicated engineers and managers replaced by bean counters.

Noel

[UrgentSiesta 936]

I think it's what happens when you let a biz person run an engineering company.

Like I'm sure Calhoun can run Burger King or Jiffy Lube with no issue.

But a company where people die if "Perfection" isn't the standard?

IOW, Any engineer could grow into a great CEO, but the inverse simply isn't true. 

[Jude Bradley 659]

It's not a million miles away from the DC-10 cargo door debacle. The same McDonnell-Douglas management group-think.

[kerosene31 349]

I'm no expert in this industry, but one trend I notice overall in business is that companies focus on short term profits above all else.  Companies exist to make a profit, that's obvious.  I think what's changed is that there's so much pressure on the current stock price and the current numbers.  Companies act against their own long term interests to make things "look good" in the short term. 

Another big problem is that the high level executives make mistakes and the regular workers get let go.  Executive pay explodes, yet they seem to face much less accountability.  If anything, the CEO gets let go (with a major compensation package), but everyone else just continues on.  Few people have heard of the higher ups past the CEO. 

To tap dance on a potentially sensitive subject, there's a lot of political narratives around big business.  "We can't tax/regulate them or they'll leave!".  At least here in the US, we've seen a massive reduction in regulations over the decades, and probably not coincidentally, a lot more problems like these.  I think expecting these companies to regulate themselves has been a massive failure across all business.  I think people outside the US would be shocked to see how little gov't oversight there is in many industries. 

[BillW 210]

The profit motive has moved a lot of production to certain Asian nations that are not motivated by quality. Brand after brand in this country left quality behind in search of competitive prices long ago. A large portion of products now are junk. Appliances, auto parts....you name it. This attitude has taken over this country. Integrity and pride of production is a rare commodity.

[FBW737 514]

The wheels are coming of the bus so either there will be a massive seed change or a catastrophic collapse of civilization. Either one is going to be a massive global shock. My money is on the latter. End of the Roman Empire with nuclear bombs! 🤪🤣

[khague3 46]

Well, this will probably get deep-sixed, but in my opinion I think too many companies care more about how many boxes on the DEI checklist are checked off, rather than the actual skill-set/business acumen of a potential hire...

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Not just aviation sector pretty much every industry is going through this systematic gutting of operations, I blame 6-Sigma 🤣