On 3/19/2024 at 5:31 AM, decker89 said:

Not sure I'll be able to justify it when Vatsim is free

Easily justifiable for me. as you said, VATSIM frequencies are often unmanned or sign off mid flight.  I would rather pay a small subscription for full ATC (that isn't scripted) on all frequencies.

I guess I'm in the minority who doesn't find $30 a high price for full time ATC.

27 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I guess I'm in the minority who doesn't find $30 a high price for full time ATC.

I most certainly do feel $30 is a (very) high price for SI 😄  But at this point (one week in from buying a sub), I'm already at the point of feeling I just can't fly without it.  I've never 'not used it' on a single flight since I got it.  I love it - even with it's "development areas".   VFR/IFR, US, UK, Germany, Canada ... I've used it on them all.   Once you get used to it, you know what it does well, and you know it's bugs.

For example, when flying IFR using a Simbrief flight plan, on first contact with ground, you'll be told the active runway is whatever MSFS winds figure it out to be.   After getting clearance (which is where SI 'imports' the Simbrief details), you'll then get taxi to whatever runway was in your Simbrief FP.   They are often different. 😉   So I've learned to ignore that first quoted active runway.

I have had so many absolute wow moments with SI.   Some of it's limitations I actually quite like.  Eg. in terms of requests, you'll almost always get what you ask for.   As a simmer, I like to get what I'm after, rather than have it declined for procedural reasons.  It won't always just give you what you want though.   I was flying into Dublin yesterday and wanted the westerly runway, in order to fly the merge approach. I asked.  It was declined.   And a high tailwind on my requested runway was given as the reason.  It is mind-bogglingly immersive at times.  Yesterday, once on the ground at Dublin, I asked the ground controller if I could tell him a joke.  He replied "Just a quick one".  I told him the joke and he gave me a 'ho-ho-ho' and made a comment that suggested he'd understood the crux of the joke!   He finished with "If we can keep the frequency clear for operational traffic now please".  😶

Worth pointing out that the voice recognition is faultless.   It has never ever misunderstood or failed to understand me, in around 30-40 flights.

It has very practical general uses too;  I use it to ask for ATIS, active runways, winds, frequencies, etc at my destination airfields.  Long before I'm in range. That's not realistic I know, but it's useful in the sim world. 

It is an emerging technology and does have some irritating bugs.   But it's very early in it's life and is updated daily by the passionate and dedicated dev; Brian.

For now, I'm willing to pay the high price.  I just can't imagine flying my IFR or VFR flights with no ATC now, and neither can I imagine flying something heavily scripted like FS HUD (which I almost bought - buying a month of SI instead).  I do hope the price reduces, which Brian constantly says is his motivated aim.  

Edited March 24, 20242 yr by JYW

8 minutes ago, JYW said:

I most certainly do feel $30 is a (very) high price for SI 😄  But at this point (one week in from buying a sub), I'm already at the point of feeling I just can't fly without it.

Exactly this point is why I find the cost very reasonable.  If you are already at the point of not wanting to fly without it, it appears you find the cost IS reasonable. 🙂  The product is remarkable because it isn't scripted, which I believe Beyond ATC will be (I may be wrong  about this, but it is what I have understood so far).  A scripted ATC just wouldn't cut it for me after using SayIntentions.

 

18 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

If you are already at the point of not wanting to fly without it, it appears you find the cost IS reasonable. 🙂

I never said 'unreasonable'. 😉

I don't think I could fly without it. But I do feel the cost it too high. (They're not mutually exclusive 😃 ) However, if we believe what Brian says (and I have no reason to doubt him), it seems like about 75% of that cost goes straight to the AI provider.   Let's hope he can negotiate more favourable rates, now that the beta is open and he's hopefully got plenty of subscribers.

For $30 a months, I want someone to come over and clean my condo. 😉

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

For $30 a months, I want someone to come over and clean my condo. 😉

Give me a minute, I'll ask it now and see what happens 😄

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Exactly this point is why I find the cost very reasonable.  If you are already at the point of not wanting to fly without it, it appears you find the cost IS reasonable. 🙂  The product is remarkable because it isn't scripted, which I believe Beyond ATC will be (I may be wrong  about this, but it is what I have understood so far).  A scripted ATC just wouldn't cut it for me after using SayIntentions.

 

The thing is: IFR IS heavily scripted. In fact even when you have to deviate from the script (e.g. diversion, emergency), those cases are also heavily scripted in themselves. As long as you can speak "humanly" (e.g. "uuuh do you have the active runway for Heathrow?" and be understood, running a script is totally fine. And from what I've seen BATC is perfectly able to understand those human interactions.

Now for VFR it's completely different, I agree.

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

The thing is: IFR IS heavily scripted. In fact even when you have to deviate from the script (e.g. diversion, emergency), those cases are also heavily scripted in themselves. As long as you can speak "humanly" (e.g. "uuuh do you have the active runway for Heathrow?" and be understood, running a script is totally fine. And from what I've seen BATC is perfectly able to understand those human interactions.

Now for VFR it's completely different, I agree.

I kind of agree.

But, under IFR, will BATC be able to understand and process a "can we deviate 15 degrees to the left for weather?" request?   In other words, there are components of IFR flights that are unplanned, and therefore not scripted.   But for the most part, I agree with you.

PS....  I am not for one moment making this a SI versus BATC thing!    They are completely different for the most part.  I'm excited for BATC and will probably buy it for airliner IFR, and use SI mostly for VFR. 😎

Edited March 24, 20242 yr by JYW

30 minutes ago, JYW said:

PS....  I am not for one moment making this a SI versus BATC thing!    They are completely different for the most part.  I'm excited for BATC and will probably buy it for airliner IFR, and use SI mostly for VFR. 😎

True, I'm sure both products will fill the needs of different people.  However, the time it's taking for BATC to be released, SI will have IFR wrapped up too! 😁

Well... BATC is still not available. So I stick with SI for now, and will compare when BATC is out. At that point SI will also be more developed as it is improving every day with feedback from uses on a very active Discord server.

I am having fun with it and have used the scripted ATC like Fshud and P2atc and the built in MSFS.

I almost never fly IRL so the money is easily found😉