Fenix A320 landing technique and general discussion thread

[Cpt_Piett 4,677]

I'm back with yet another long-winded post!

As I couldn't find a thread discussing various aspects of operating the Fenix (and didn't feel like necroing an old thread), I decided to start a new one.

I'd like to see a discussion among Fenix enthusiasts with advice, interesting tidbits, experience of handling the aircraft etc. Input from real world Airbus pilots will of course as always be a huge bonus, but there are also some very skilled and knowledgeable simmers out there!

I'll start off with a rather lengthy description of my futile attempts at short field landings, based on excellent advice in the Fenix updated V2 thread. I'd suggest checking it out, as it contains great advice on e.g. how to successfully perform the fabled CATI autoland (hitherto considered impossible).

Hopefully, reading about as well as seeing my many mistakes will get the discussion going!

Goal:

Taking the A320 safely down to the very short runway (970m) at ENSD Sandane. The RNP approach is fairly tricky, with a slope of 5.40° from 6000ft to threshold at 180ft. It also requires a very late turn towards the Rwy in order to not smash the aircraft into the nearby hills! The MDA by the way is 2020ft. 

Plan:

• no payload, ZFW 44T), 1000kg extra fuel, estimated LAW only 45T
• max manual braking
• max reverse thrust
• A/THR off

Despite risking eternal humiliation here on Avsim, I've decided to share two videos documenting my attempts. At the very least it shows how NOT to do things. This could possibly be educational - and could perhaps create some interesting discussion.

First attempt:

TL;DR: Ended with a hazardous go-around.

Feeling very clever, I had configured the weather with 15kts of headwind, just to make things a little easier for myself. However, on departure from ENAL Ålesund I was a bit baffled by the high pitched moaning and large waves topped with white foam, as can be seen in the screenshot below:

On final approach it eventually dawned upon me that I might have configured the winds erroneously. In fact I had set winds according to the metric system instead of US... 15m/s = 29.2kts i.e. near gale force winds.

Hence, as I switched over to the US system, the wind strength was instantly halved, something the aircraft didn't respond very well to with airspeed plummeting. At the very least I made the sensible decision to go TOGA thrust and a go-around. As the aircraft was just above ZFW and wanted to climb like a rocket, it was very tricky to manage pitch and flap retraction in order to avoid an overspeed situation. In clean configuration I vaguely recall vertical speed being in the magnitude of 7000fpm...

I decided to restart from ENAL for a 2nd attempt. Luckily the air time is only 25mins with a cruise ALT of FL080 in order to clear the mountains.

2nd attempt:

...did not go too well! (biggest understatement of the year)

So… what went wrong? Or perhaps we should ask what didn’t go wrong?

• forgot to reduce thrust levers from CLB detent before disengaging A/THR, resulting in the engines spooling up massively from idle
• came in way too high and fast (it IS a steep approach)
• forgot to arm spoilers (after extending them to manage speed) + didn't notice the ECAM warning
• didn't respond quick enough to rapidly reducing airspeed just before crossing the threshold
• didn't flare at all, resulting in touch down at nearly 900fpm!
• which inevitably lead to a gigantic bounce...
• and to add fuel to the fire, I went MAX REVERSE THRUST in the high bounce, in a desperate attempt to bring the bird down
• which resulted in a nose-down landing, sigh

TL;DR: I completely failed to assess the situation properly - should obviously have done a go-around!!

Even worse - I did all this after having watched a very decent instructional video which focuses on the landing flare - shared by @Claudius_ I highly recommend watching it. Come to think of it, it’s almost like I did my very best to do exactly the opposite of every advice given in that video…

Now I´d better call maintenance to get someone to have a look at that landing gear. As I was running away from the aircraft I was sure I saw one of the nose wheels inside engine #1 (not sure where the other wheel went) as well as the nose of the aircraft resting on what was left of the nose gear.

This was not all in vain though, as I learned some lessons as well as got some valuable practice handling the aircraft with A/THR off (which I've never done before). I found it much easier and intuitive than I originally thought, just like @Farlis mentioned. And - hand-flying the Fenix is a breeze, thanks to the fly-by-wire system. Just make a small input on the sidestick and leave it there. Fantastic! And SO much fun!

Conclusion: I did in fact manage to "land" on my 2nd attempt - BUT in doing so I wrecked the nose gear AND had my ATPL-license suspended pending further assessments.

3rd and 4th attempts:

3rd attempt did not as planned either. The aircraft did not want to settle on the runway, and I decided (way too late!!) to do a go-around. How well that went can embarrassingly be seen in the video...

4th attempt: Having learned a bit from three failed attempts, I daresay that I managed to do a reasonably successful (and possibly safe) landing, with even some runway length to spare in front of me 😄 

EDIT: It just occurred to me that it probably would have been smarter to turn off FDs when FINAL APP guidance was no longer available. 

Constructive criticism of my comments/ramblings as well as the videos is as always much appreciated. I've tried to analyse the mistakes I made, but I'm almost certain I did even more mistakes that I'm not aware of. And don't worry - I can handle criticism - most of the time 😉

Fun fact: when I'm not busy at the Executor, I spend most of my time 28nm southwest of ENSD 🙂

Fenix V2 handling impression:

Despite (obviously!!) not being type rated on the A320, my impression is that the aircraft handled beautifully and predictably in all stages of flight despite my newbie mistakes and rough handling. During a holding pattern on the approach though, I had several AP disconnects. I’ll put this down to pilot error. As other people could very well be way above my skill level, I'd really like to hear what you think. Does the Fenix handle in a realistic way? What are some of the remaining issues at this stage?

Oh, and btw is there a way to turn off the TAWS aural warnings? Not sure if it's wise to do so though. And before anyone points out that it's in the FCOM - I know (I'm only up to page 124 of 7560 though) 😉

In fact I'll be so kind to share it with you (courtesy of a helpful soul in another thread).

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[jcomm 5,939]

Thank you! @Cpt_Piett for sharing all of your experience !

[hvw 403]

Thank you! @Cpt_Piett for sharing the FCOM and your guide on landing the Fenix A320 V2..

[Cpt_Piett 4,677]

27 minutes ago, hvw said:

Thank you! @Cpt_Piett for sharing the FCOM and your guide on landing the Fenix A320 V2..

You’re welcome! It’s mostly about showing how not to land though 😉 

[Farlis 2,287]

8 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

You’re welcome! It’s mostly about showing how not to land though 😉 

In the spirit of instructing people how not to be seen, I'd say.;)

All jokes aside, your efforts were quite valiant and I really love that Airfield. Will have to fly there myself some day. In a slightly more appropriate aircraft. 😉

Edited March 17 by Farlis

[SAS443 1,723]

 I won't comment on SOP:s in specific since they arent really applicable for  this sort of hmm "special approach" where you don't typically bring an A320 and very few of us are A320 test pilots IRL, I suppose.

But hey, that's the cool part about a desktop simulator, we are free to do whatever we want. 🙂

Regarding the 4th attempt. Ask yourself if it's a good idea to carry 235 KIAS into the approach when the runway is 7.5NM out. It's basically back to ADM from your PPL days.
Would you carry 115 KIAS into final leg in a PA28 for a short field? Doable, probably (you managed to land and slow down in the video)  but reckless and you're giving up lots of overhead margin for any kind of stable approach criteria and adding unnecessary stress.

My advice is to configure the plane way sooner for a totally improper approach like this 😄   
Benefits are less vertical speed required , also slowing down the pace in general and in return you get added time for lateral/vertical adjustment and for last minute checks to see if any items have been forgotten (such as spoilers etc 🙂 )
In short: slow down in order to increase the pace of cockpit workflow. It works, regardless of airplane.

And as always , designate a proper touchdown spot aswell as balked landing spot (where you will trigger Go-Around), again back to basic ADM.

[Cpt_Piett 4,677]

31 minutes ago, Farlis said:

All jokes aside, your efforts were quite valiant and I really love that Airfield. Will have to fly there myself some day. In a slightly more appropriate aircraft. 😉

Always happy to entertain lol! 😂

There’s a reason why no airlines take anything bigger than a Dash-8 into that place. In fact Norway is scattered with short runway airports, many of them with hazardous (but oh so much fun!) approaches. I highly recommend ENOV (between ENSD and ENAL) with an even (possibly) more spectacular approach. Rwy length 1071m. Bring her in at dusk or dawn in some gentle clouds - looks absolutely amazing.

And there’s of course ENSG just a bit further southeast. There’s an ILS approach, but I’d recommend the LOC Rwy 6 appr which starts in a holding pattern at 6500ft, just some 1000ft above the mountains. Rwy length should not be a problem whatsoever at 1110m 😉

EDIT: just remembered something. In the second video, on the first go-around (yes should have started that way earlier) it took a significant time for the engines to spool up from idle. Any heavier and I’d be at the bottom of the fjord.

My question: is the slow spool-up time a “feature” of IAE - or is it the other way around?

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[Cpt_Piett 4,677]

48 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Ask yourself if it's a good idea to carry 235 KIAS into the approach when the runway is 7.5NM out

Excellent point, thanks for bringing that that up. I was paying dearly for that blunder all the way down to 2000ft or so. Guilty as charged!

Great learning experience though as such a steep approach can be unfamiliar when one’s used to the staple 3 degrees ILS.

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[Wolf0 31]

On a more real-life note, there are instances where A320's have landed on Horta's runway (Azores, Portugal), which has 1595m and have managed to stop mid-runway. That is roughly 700m of braking distance for a passenger paying flight.

Check here:

 

Edited March 17 by Wolf0

[hvw 403]

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

You’re welcome! It’s mostly about showing how not to land though 😉

Oops, I forgot to end the sentence with a 🙂 Nevertheless, thanks for your demonstration 🙂 

 

[Cpt_Piett 4,677]

18 minutes ago, hvw said:

Oops, I forgot to end the sentence with a 🙂 Nevertheless, thanks for your demonstration 🙂 

No worries 🙂 

I’m sure there’s more mistakes to be found, but I’m also hoping for this to be a place to discuss the Fenix in general.

[El Diablito 328]

Having caused many a frequent flyer to reconsider flying on my aircraft after many HARD landings, I think I've finally found the sweet spot for my landings now - 

I cut the throttles between 40-50ft depending on the weather with a very gentle nose up on the stick at 10ft of about 1-2 degrees and she meets the tarmac with ease. Granted this is flying with BA in APL so it's with the IAEs.

I've had a bit of luck with landing weather apart from LIMC where there was strong crosswinds but I'm going to work from this baseline in future and adjust accordingly.

[Bobsk8 12,737]

6 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

Having caused many a frequent flyer to reconsider flying on my aircraft after many HARD landings, I think I've finally found the sweet spot for my landings now - 

I cut the throttles between 40-50ft depending on the weather with a very gentle nose up on the stick at 10ft of about 1-2 degrees and she meets the tarmac with ease. Granted this is flying with BA in APL so it's with the IAEs.

I've had a bit of luck with landing weather apart from LIMC where there was strong crosswinds but I'm going to work from this baseline in future and adjust accordingly.

Yeah, APL will quickly show someone how capable a pilot they are. 

[El Diablito 328]

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Yeah, APL will quickly show someone how capable a pilot they are. 

Haha, I'm done with apps and performance and I'm just getting my head down to try and enjoy it again now. 

Watching for FPS and TLODs the last week and I kept forgetting to turn off landing lights etc, I've had some horrific scores to prove it!

Edited March 17 by El Diablito

[G550flyer 1,014]

3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Excellent point, thanks for bringing that that up. I was paying dearly for that blunder all the way down to 2000ft or so. Guilty as charged!

Great learning experience though as such a steep approach can be unfamiliar when one’s used to the staple 3 degrees ILS.

Here are some things for ya.

My real world techniques are: So of course, 250KT at 10,000. 200KTS by 20NM from the airport. 180KTS on intercept heading/vectors. Slow to approach speed and gear down when G/S starts down on an ILS. Final flaps when the G/S is a dot above. For GPS, fully configured and at approach speed by the FAF. This will resolve any steep approach situation. For non precisions, fully configured and on approach speed by the descent point if you don't have any circling configurations/speeds to maintain. Just ensure to configure accordingly to attain the speeds I mentioned.