Can you see the difference between 30fps and 60fps?

[Cpt_Piett 4,833]

40 minutes ago, turbomax said:

incredibly useful. that's what I like about Captain Piett's contributions. he provides pure facts and numbers for an ever more complex "game", the age of enlightenment with professional benchmarking of MSFS has begun. you are the Rob Ainscough of MSFS.

Haha thanks turbo, appreciated! I need to get a mic though as editing a 5 minute video this way takes hours 😅 I’ll never get to the same level of Island Sim Pilot of course, but perhaps I can entertain fellow avsimmers with my funny accent 🫠

[kevinfirth 1,436]

4 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Haha thanks turbo, appreciated! I need to get a mic though as editing a 5 minute video this way takes hours 😅 I’ll never get to the same level of Island Sim Pilot of course, but perhaps I can entertain fellow avsimmers with my funny accent 🫠

The video annotations are really useful, thanks.  Have to say those FTV's weren't actually that bad given the scenery, the locality, the AI injection and the camera transition.

[Noel 4,563]

14 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I made a little video to compare performance with and without AI traffic (the difference is pretty huge). It seems to have turned into a mini-tutorial on how to use the RTSS overlay combined with CapFrameX, as well as the significance of frame time variances (FTV) on smoothness. 

I'm glad this is being spread but I will have to take full credit for the original finding shared w/ CptPiett and a few others who took the effort to try it themselves.  I tried all known methods of running the sim and it was ONLY this method that delivered the superior FTV.  I asked some w/ FG capable GPUs to see if this would hold up when FG was applied, and it does thankfully, but I didn't find that out until I tested it after adding 4090:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/628655-ultimate-smoothness-at-modest-frame-rates/?do=findComment&comment=4899096

 

Edited April 4 by Noel

[Lonesome Cowboy Burt 175]

13 hours ago, turbomax said:

incredibly useful. that's what I like about Captain Piett's contributions. he provides pure facts and figures for an ever more complex "game", the age of enlightenment with professional benchmarking of MSFS has begun. you are the Rob Ainscough of MSFS.

Seconded, Thankyou Cap'n and may the force...no wait...oops

[History 47]

Two addons that make me happy; ATR 72 and PMDG DC 6. The two are very easy in the fps. Capped at 38 using RivaTuner and with AutoFPS targeted at 39. In my case, just fly.... and forget about the FPS. 

Edited April 4 by History

[Cpt_Piett 4,833]

24 minutes ago, Noel said:

I'm glad this is being spread but I will have to take full credit for the original finding shared w/ CptPiett and a few others who took the effort to try it themselves.

I think you wrote that thread just after I vanished. Anyway, such a great discovery 👌🏻

Edited April 4 by Cpt_Piett

[Noel 4,563]

Having thought I had great performance overall since FSX/P3D and MSFS when I stumbled on to this I was so passionate about it I wanted to share it with everyone but alas I feel the obsession with frame rate overshadowed its contribution at the time.  Since then brute force has lessened its value some but there are still many who don't have tp end parts.  Thanks

[Cpt_Piett 4,833]

Well, at the time a lot of people were in a frenzy over the brute force of the 4090. Getting 120+ FPS can be a bit intoxicating, lol. After the dust had settled, I became a bit more sober, and recently I’ve returned to the precious RTSS edge sync lock method. Which works even at higher frame rates. Even though to some extent FTV matters less then, I would still choose low FTV at 70 FPS locked vs higher FTV at e.g. 120-ish unlocked. 

[Noel 4,563]

I remember asking you to test if RTSS held up when FG was added.  At the time from your one test I think it was it didn't appear to, but maybe you weren't setup correctly in RTSS, or were so overtaxed stuttering killed it.  I was delighted after I got 4090, and before said FG issues for me started to gel, that indeed RTSS edge sync still works with FG enabled.  

It is what it is and now we have apps like DynamicLOD/AutoFPS that have been fabulous to tie up the other loose ends.  I brought this up some time ago and was delighted to see someone addressed it so well--FAR superior to FFTF in FSX/P3D, near as I recall:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/616226-dynamic-optimizer-needed/?do=findComment&comment=4736461

[Cpt_Piett 4,833]

Judging from the forum activity since I emerged from my hiatus, there’s a bit of a renaissance happening at the moment, with AutoFPS, improved DLSS versions, DLDSR etc. 

In another recent thread, I tried to demonstrate that even with a 4090, it cannot brute force its way past the mainthread-barrier that’s currently present in the sim. Hopefully 2024 will have much improved multithreading optimization. Also I’m hoping that BeyondATC will run its calculations externally. At the moment AI traffic hammers the mainthread too much.

On 3/11/2022 at 8:12 PM, Noel said:

The closer you get to touchdown, the less LOD matters as this is largely obscured by near field buildings and scenery.  LOD is the biggest single factor affecting the main thread for my configuration

Well said back in March ‘22 😄

Edited April 4 by Cpt_Piett

[Noel 4,563]

43 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

At the moment AI traffic hammers the main thread too much

How much do you have as live and static AI?  I'm so thinned down I only see traffic, bless FSLTL if it's responsible, near where my gates are.  The rest of the airport will have no static traffic.  But with this level of live traffic I still will see a couple of planes in the air near the airport and it's kind of good enough.  What I don't want is so much traffic I'm waiting as you mentioned 10 minutes to get cleared for TO!  And then the same coming in for Go Arounds.

[Christopher Low 5,395]

I actually enjoyed having to wait for a few other planes to depart when I used P3Dv4. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that activating AI planes in MSFS would tank performance on my system. I am not the kind of person who can accept 20% AI traffic. It needs to be 100%, or I am not interested. Performance with static aircraft @ 100% is perfectly fine, but the problem with this option is that my airports are populated with a random selection of airlines from all over the world. Seeing Frontier Airlines and Spicejet @ Bristol International in England is not exactly realistic.

Edited April 4 by Christopher Low

[FBW737 519]

being able to see the difference between 30fps and 60fps is not the same as seeing stutters. Everyone can see stutters. 30fps with no stutters is far superior to 60fps with stutters. My personal threshold on my well tuned mostly stutter free system is about 48fps in MSFS anything above that make little to no difference. The nearer to maxing out the CPU and/or GPU you get the more stutters you'll get too. Stutters are frames that a long relative to the frames preceding and succeeding them.

Edited April 4 by FBW737

[Cpt_Piett 4,833]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

How much do you have as live and static AI?  I'm so thinned down I only see traffic, bless FSLTL if it's responsible, near where my gates are.  The rest of the airport will have no static traffic.  But with this level of live traffic I still will see a couple of planes in the air near the airport and it's kind of good enough.  What I don't want is so much traffic I'm waiting as you mentioned 10 minutes to get cleared for TO!  And then the same coming in for Go Arounds.

I'm trying to find the sweet spot for my system. Currently set FSLTL at max 30 IFR and max 30 static, with a 50km radius. I'll quickly see if that's too much as I'm currently approaching iniBuild's Heathrow in the 146. 

I'm currently indecisive re: FSLTL vs AIG. It's easier to manage the traffic volume in AIG due to the 0-100% scale. It also has a nice feature that filters out all traffic except for the departure and arrival airports when on the ground. FSLTL on the other hand will inject whatever traffic that's within the 50km radius, airborne as well as on the ground. 

As I've got both FSLTL and AIG injectors running (obviously not injecting at the same time), I'll try to find a setting that doesn't ruin the blissful smoothness I had last night at Heathrow. 

So far so good - at FL140 over Birmingham, RTSS-locked at 65 with AutoFPS in AutoTLOD mode (Min 50 Max 300). Frame time graph is so far completely flat - which is what we like to see!

EDIT: Just landed at Heathrow. A little bit sluggish with some frame time spikes on short final and taxi to the ramp, but not too bad. Just sitting at the stand and deboarding with GSX, the frame time graph is again flat. This was with AIG at 30% which translates into 70 aircraft around me. 

EDIT: Just did some more testing, and it seems that AIG at 30% results in slightly better performance than FSLTL at 30IFR 30 parked. And I should stop expecting to get a flat frame time graph at iniBuild's Heathrow with AI traffic and enjoy flying a bit more from now on 😅

Edited April 4 by Cpt_Piett

[Noel 4,563]

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Just landed at Heathrow. A little bit sluggish with some frame time spikes on short final and taxi to the ramp, but not too bad.

Recall I mentioned yesterday that I still had the odd stutter here and there despite major CPUmt/GPU/VRAM headroom.  Well.....I forgot I had left DynamicLOD at 70 on the ground at KSFO.  Duh, no can handle that!  Once back to 30 or even 20 I rarely see any stutters anywhere!  Of course the taxiway lines get blurry out not far but it's just a tiny line and can deal with that over random stutters!