2 hours ago, Noel said:

Let's leave it be

I didn't mean to offend, I was just interested as I have used filters extensively over the years.

On 7/25/2024 at 7:22 PM, jrw4 said:

Those screenshots taken in HDR probably won't display very well on SDR screens, nor potentially, on HDR screens with varying brightness maxima. So if you want to create snapshots that you will display on your own HDR screens, that's fine, but if they're posted on the web and displayed on SDR screens the result may be less than ideal. If anyone can explain how to do this successfully, I would be quite interested.

Also, I have a relatively modest HDR capable monitor with a limited maximum brightness of 350 nits. It still is capable of displaying truly astonishing images in MSFS and when combined with 4K resolution creates highly satisfactory views that certainly work for me. I would expect that FS2024 will take this even further once it arrives later this year.

As I said gamebar (PC) shift+alt+G which saves in two file formats png (rgb value) and jxr which looks the same at different screens SDR or HDR for that matter...

14 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I didn't mean to offend, I was just interested as I have used filters extensively over the years.

I wasn't offended my friend I just had convinced myself of what looked best.  What I haven't read from anyone here was my challenge:  did you use the GFE Details filter alone w/ desktop color adjustments?  Even Cpt_Piett mentioned he never tried the GFE Details filter despite using other filters, presumably assuming it had mostly to do w/ sharpening.  It's really quite remarkable as it solves all of it:  cockpit brightness, and everything else!

Cheers

10 minutes ago, Noel said:

Even Cpt_Piett mentioned he never tried the GFE Details filter despite using other filters, presumably assuming it had mostly to do w/ sharpening.  It's really quite remarkable as it solves all of it:  cockpit brightness, and everything else!

I'm tempted to try the details filter Noel. It's just that I really enjoy HDR vs SDR. I would say this though: with SDR I was happy with the filter settings I used. Hence next step for me is probably to create new filter settings to use with HDR. 

When I start making videos again, I'll try out the details filter with SDR 🙂

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Cpt_Piett

I have no idea if it matters but I do have HDR on in Win 11, just not using in MSFS.

Are you using a capture card for video production?

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Noel

16 minutes ago, Noel said:

I wasn't offended my friend I just had convinced myself of what looked best.  What I haven't read from anyone here was my challenge:  did you use the GFE Details filter alone w/ desktop color adjustments?  Even Cpt_Piett mentioned he never tried the GFE Details filter despite using other filters, presumably assuming it had mostly to do w/ sharpening.  It's really quite remarkable as it solves all of it:  cockpit brightness, and everything else!

Cheers

My previous monitor was HDR600. I spent some time playing with filters with HDR turned off, but the display couldn't come close to the extra brightness, contrast and more natural colours of HDR600.  Now I have a monitor with a peak brightness of 1000 nits, SDR looks even more 'flat', regardless what filters are used.

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

I have no idea if it matters but I do have HDR on in Win 11, just not using in MSFS.

Are you using a capture card for video production?

I'm also on Win11 and using the HDR calibration tool. Could be worth giving a try, but it seems that you're happy with your current settings. 

I'm using OBS Studio. 

2 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

SDR looks even more 'flat'

That's how I would describe SDR too - flat and bland compared to SDR. My OLED has overall great picture quality, but in terms of HDR brightness it's not exceptional at 600-700 nits. 

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Cpt_Piett

3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I'm also on Win11 and using the HDR calibration tool. Could be worth giving a try, but it seems that you're happy with your current settings. 

I'm using OBS Studio. 

That's how I would describe SDR too - flat and bland compared to SDR. My OLED has overall great picture quality, but in terms of HDR brightness it's not exceptional at 600-700 nits. 

Not a thing in the slightest 'bland' about using these settings.  Have you done it yet?  ***Details filter in SDR with NCP Desktop Color settings roughly here:

Gamma:  93

Contrast:  70

Brightness:  user pref, mines at around 52 and is the last adjustment done to get total brightness set.

Digital Vibrance:  user pref, mine's at around 54

Here are my display specs, and I calibrated HDR w/ the Win 11 Calibration App:

Key Features

• 34” Curved UltraWide QHD (3440 x 1440) Nano IPS Display.
• IPS 1ms (GtG) 144Hz Refresh Rate (O.C 180Hz)
• NVIDIA G-SYNC Ultimate.
• VESA DisplayHDR 600 (56 Block Local Dimming)
• DCI-P3 98% Color Gamut.
• 3-Side Virtually Borderless Design.
• Contrast Ratio:  1000:1 (Typ.)

Near as I can tell my hardware can deliver decent HDR and I've seen it in MSFS several times now.  Kind of like trying DLSS FG multiple times only to go back to native frame rate:  I find HDR less natural looking than what my settings afford.  Near as I can tell what I'm looking at is as close to what my eyes would see in the RW as possible and is anything but 'bland'.  I'm always blown away especially with dawn/dusk launches at the gate just mind-blowingly realistic and inspiring, still....after almost 4y!

Try my exact settings*** above, simple to try, and as mentioned not sure if it matters HDR is enabled in Win 11 which it is here even though off in-game.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Noel

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

Not a thing in the slightest 'bland' about using these settings.  Have you done it yet?  ***Details filter in SDR with NCP Desktop Color settings roughly here:

I’ll try SDR with your settings in the next sim session and report back.

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

VESA DisplayHDR 600

If 600 refers to nits, our displays should be similar in terms of HDR brightness. But there’s considerable differences LCD vs OLED.

22 minutes ago, Noel said:

not sure if it matters HDR is enabled in Win 11 which it is here even though off in-game.

I’m also not sure about that. Usually I have both either on or off.

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Cpt_Piett

9 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I’ll try SDR with your settings in the next sim session and report back.

I'm retrying HDR and set all NCP desktop color to default.  It way too dark in the cockpit for starters. Outside looks 'electrified', almost neon-like, and so very cartoonish.  So dialed contrast to 0, everything else at default desktop color and it's not bad.  It's just not as good as my settings.  However....

I am trying a toned down Details along w/ HDR.  Hey, this is looking great.  I've dialed back several of Details filter sliders and set NCP contrast at 20 and this is pretty nice.  I think the distant sky got nice darker blue and the rest looks descent so far.

I'm up at 38K feet so be interesting to see how it looks on approach.  It's really quite nice I think you'll like it once tuned.

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by Noel

@Noel if you’ve flown with SDR for 4 yrs HDR will take some getting used to. With SDR I used the below filter settings, and I’ll try to achieve something similar with HDR.

Temperature -14

Vibrance 11

Contrast 30

Highlights -70

Gamma -12

 

It was a net plus until descending into the deep cloud layer coming into Ketchikan at which point the brightness of the glass cockpit was massive neon and I didn't want to change it all, recreate a new default for the plane.  I think this means it's not a trivial thing to go back and forth between SDR w/ Detail and HDR w/ Detail:  the windows desktop ends up getting washed out flat.  I must not be using the calibration app correctly as it seems like that can't happen else it would be a no go.   

If I can get the same desktop color settings to work in MSFS w/ HDR I might continue with it.  For my landing i ended up reverting back to my preferred and all was well.  It's easy to dial in contrast to get close to what HDR offers I feel.

5 hours ago, Noel said:

I'm retrying HDR and set all NCP desktop color to default.  It way too dark in the cockpit for starters. Outside looks 'electrified', almost neon-like, and so very cartoonish.  So dialed contrast to 0, everything else at default desktop color and it's not bad.  It's just not as good as my settings.  However....

I am trying a toned down Details along w/ HDR.  Hey, this is looking great.  I've dialed back several of Details filter sliders and set NCP contrast at 20 and this is pretty nice.  I think the distant sky got nice darker blue and the rest looks descent so far.

I'm up at 38K feet so be interesting to see how it looks on approach.  It's really quite nice I think you'll like it once tuned.

How many local dimming zones does your monitor have?  I ask because you described the display as 'neon-like'.  

Put all your desktop brightness/colour/contrast settings to default because with HDR you don't need filters.  Last thing to do is to use the HDR Calibration Tool from Microsoft to make sure MSFS is sending the proper values to the monitor (max brightness in MSFS is 1000 nits, so it needs to be tuned to 600 nits for your monitor).  If this isn't done, everything from HDR600 to HDR1000 will be blown out.

As you have said, the correct settings are what appeal to you, but I think it worth trying to get HDR to the best it can be after all, real world is tens of thousands of nits, so getting closer to that can increase reality in the sim.

5 hours ago, Noel said:

It was a net plus until descending into the deep cloud layer coming into Ketchikan at which point the brightness of the glass cockpit was massive neon and I didn't want to change it all, recreate a new default for the plane.  I think this means it's not a trivial thing to go back and forth between SDR w/ Detail and HDR w/ Detail:  the windows desktop ends up getting washed out flat.  I must not be using the calibration app correctly as it seems like that can't happen else it would be a no go.   

If I can get the same desktop color settings to work in MSFS w/ HDR I might continue with it.  For my landing i ended up reverting back to my preferred and all was well.  It's easy to dial in contrast to get close to what HDR offers I feel.

If the glass cockpit was 'massive neon' in HDR, you either still have some filters in use or the monitor calibration/adjusted desktop settings are throwing your HDR off.  HDR shouldn't require any filters or adjusted gamma/colours etc.

Windows has a setting for desktop brightness when HDR is selected on - go into HDR setting to find the desktop slider.

Edited July 27, 20241 yr by MrBitstFlyer

9 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

because with HDR you don't need filters.

Please explain how you came to this conclusion if you will.  "Filters" can do a lot more than influence contrast.  Have you tried the Details filter along with HDR as I mentioned yet?  And played with its few sliders?  HDR toning gets the VC dash dialed in perfectly and that is true in SDR or HDR.