Some months ago I took a punt on a payware jet that was purportedly XP12 functional. The model had significant issues with respect to the EFIS and NAV displays such as FD and attitude bars being misaligned, problems with the way the LR G1000 screens were integrated etc etc. I was not the only one and found numerous posts about the problems and others. The curious thing about this payware developer is that every single post has to be approved (by a Moderator maybe not sure) before it will be published. Several I made were published. The responses from the developer were an upgrade will be provided shortly and provided directions and information ton how to to do what could not be done  because the methods and advice was based on the Laminar XP11 version of the FMS NAV G1000 systems not XP12. Enough said. I pointed out this issue as well and was just ignored. 

Updated model turned out to be even worse, AI and PFD fixes but now the AP could not be used to fly the aeroplane, just no function buttons simple really. Did not think much of the AVITAB plasteted half over the copilots screens eiether.  I might add you get no advice of the update it was done via Skunkcraft but no version change, change log or other info to know what had been done. 

Visiitng the org today I found a message from possibly a moderator (maybe not) essentially castigating me for making unfounded and stupid complaints. All entitled to their views I guess but my latest post is a genuine complaint about a not fit for purpose product, this latest issue was not posted so I guess it is censored. What makes it even more irritating is that there is effectively no other way to communicate with the developer. 

The payware was cheap I accept that but lets be frank it is useless in the sim, well not completely you could hand fly it constantly and forget about loading a flight plan into the FMS but the fact that it could not be directed to follow either NAV or HDG data was just hopeless when you engaged the AP was just ridiculous, no buttons or controls to get it to do that now. I had hoped it would be fixed, I got fixed instead, so well so after thinking about it I deleted the whole model etc from XPlane and my system completely. Now I wont have to worry about it again. It was only $20 so what do you expect I guess. 

If you wondering what think PIlatus and Jet. Thats all as they say Caveat Emptor. I can do without the righteous indignation from persons at the Org just trying to advise said developer that it is a mess and useless! Another case of a developer in over their head - great visuals and modelling but absolutely diabolical systems and functionality. 

As for the Org - well any future purchases will be via dedicated developer web site not the Org Store. 

Edited August 15, 20241 yr by coastaldriver

in sim store is so very well overdue.

7 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Some months ago I took a punt on a payware jet that was purportedly XP12 functional. The model had significant issues with respect to the EFIS and NAV displays such as FD and attitude bars being misaligned, problems with the way the LR G1000 screens were integrated etc etc. I was not the only one and found numerous posts about the problems and others. The curious thing about this payware developer is that every single post has to be approved (by a Moderator maybe not sure) before it will be published. Several I made were published. The responses from the developer were an upgrade will be provided shortly and provided directions and information ton how to to do what could not be done  because the methods and advice was based on the Laminar XP11 version of the FMS NAV G1000 systems not XP12. Enough said. I pointed out this issue as well and was just ignored. 

Updated model turned out to be even worse, AI and PFD fixes but now the AP could not be used to fly the aeroplane, just no function buttons simple really. Did not think much of the AVITAB plasteted half over the copilots screens eiether.  I might add you get no advice of the update it was done via Skunkcraft but no version change, change log or other info to know what had been done. 

Visiitng the org today I found a message from possibly a moderator (maybe not) essentially castigating me for making unfounded and stupid complaints. All entitled to their views I guess but my latest post is a genuine complaint about a not fit for purpose product, this latest issue was not posted so I guess it is censored. What makes it even more irritating is that there is effectively no other way to communicate with the developer. 

The payware was cheap I accept that but lets be frank it is useless in the sim, well not completely you could hand fly it constantly and forget about loading a flight plan into the FMS but the fact that it could not be directed to follow either NAV or HDG data was just hopeless when you engaged the AP was just ridiculous, no buttons or controls to get it to do that now. I had hoped it would be fixed, I got fixed instead, so well so after thinking about it I deleted the whole model etc from XPlane and my system completely. Now I wont have to worry about it again. It was only $20 so what do you expect I guess. 

If you wondering what think PIlatus and Jet. Thats all as they say Caveat Emptor. I can do without the righteous indignation from persons at the Org just trying to advise said developer that it is a mess and useless! Another case of a developer in over their head - great visuals and modelling but absolutely diabolical systems and functionality. 

As for the Org - well any future purchases will be via dedicated developer web site not the Org Store. 

 

I understand you. In the .Org they are more violent and arrogant every day and Nicolas seems like a dictator. I understand you because I was also unfairly suspended when I harshly criticized Flight Factor because they sell airplanes and then abandon them.

This caused Flight Factor and Nicolas to delete the comments I made on the post and then suspend me. There is no possibility to ask for help or criticize addons in the .Org. There is no freedom of expression and if you don't think the way they want or do what they want, they suspend you.

Nicolas, who is the administrator, sent me a private message telling me that he was crazy and that he was an insane person for criticizing Flight Factor.

I am very sorry that everything is concentrated in the .Org and the developers publish only there.

I will make future purchases on other websites but I hope not in the .org store. We have to wait for Laminar to release its own store within X-Plane 12.

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

in sim store is so very well overdue.

What are you talking about?

Well, the tone sets the music and basically declaring a developer's work null and void is the nuclear option.

I know which model this thread is about is and my copy got relegated to "hangar queen" status pretty quickly after I've made some suggestions for fixes and improvements that got brushed aside. After some update announcement by the dev, I dig it out and give it a short test, but each non ends with a "nope" and back into the hangar it goes.

One other Org member modded and fixed the aircraft in question and flies it every day, but is reluctant to share what exactly he has done. But IIRC, he offered them to the developer. Not sure what came of it.

 

P.S: I hope the upcoming offcial XP store has a refund policy (available until 1 h of usage or so).

1 hour ago, Guido1996 said:

What are you talking about?

https://www.x-plane.com/2024/02/introducing-the-x-plane-store/

11 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Some months ago I took a punt on a payware jet that was purportedly XP12 functional. The model had significant issues with respect to the EFIS and NAV displays such as FD and attitude bars being misaligned, problems with the way the LR G1000 screens were integrated etc etc. I was not the only one and found numerous posts about the problems and others. The curious thing about this payware developer is that every single post has to be approved (by a Moderator maybe not sure) before it will be published. Several I made were published. The responses from the developer were an upgrade will be provided shortly and provided directions and information ton how to to do what could not be done  because the methods and advice was based on the Laminar XP11 version of the FMS NAV G1000 systems not XP12. Enough said. I pointed out this issue as well and was just ignored. 

Updated model turned out to be even worse, AI and PFD fixes but now the AP could not be used to fly the aeroplane, just no function buttons simple really. Did not think much of the AVITAB plasteted half over the copilots screens eiether.  I might add you get no advice of the update it was done via Skunkcraft but no version change, change log or other info to know what had been done. 

Visiitng the org today I found a message from possibly a moderator (maybe not) essentially castigating me for making unfounded and stupid complaints. All entitled to their views I guess but my latest post is a genuine complaint about a not fit for purpose product, this latest issue was not posted so I guess it is censored. What makes it even more irritating is that there is effectively no other way to communicate with the developer. 

The payware was cheap I accept that but lets be frank it is useless in the sim, well not completely you could hand fly it constantly and forget about loading a flight plan into the FMS but the fact that it could not be directed to follow either NAV or HDG data was just hopeless when you engaged the AP was just ridiculous, no buttons or controls to get it to do that now. I had hoped it would be fixed, I got fixed instead, so well so after thinking about it I deleted the whole model etc from XPlane and my system completely. Now I wont have to worry about it again. It was only $20 so what do you expect I guess. 

If you wondering what think PIlatus and Jet. Thats all as they say Caveat Emptor. I can do without the righteous indignation from persons at the Org just trying to advise said developer that it is a mess and useless! Another case of a developer in over their head - great visuals and modelling but absolutely diabolical systems and functionality. 

As for the Org - well any future purchases will be via dedicated developer web site not the Org Store. 

And I can tell you I know who teh Mod is because he owns the ORG, and I was blasted over a statement i made about a product. He is not interested in customer satisfaction only sales. In fact you cant even contact him.

Mjrhealth - sounds like one and the same - hardly a winning formula for business - the monopoly days of the Org are over. I guess the point for me was that this was a commercial pay product that belonged in the amateur freeware -fix it up maybe but I gave it a go class! Your not asking for them to remake it into something else - but just get the basics to work! It is similar to the sites refusal to clearly differentiate products for XP11 and XP12 - half of the stuff there is for XP11 (learnt a few unpleasant lessons there as well). Borderline deceptive and misleading conduct. Dead Parrot anyone?

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

https://www.x-plane.com/2024/02/introducing-the-x-plane-store/

Yes, I read that and I knew that the store was coming within the simulator but I thought there was something different. I speak Spanish

49 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

And I can tell you I know who teh Mod is because he owns the ORG, and I was blasted over a statement i made about a product. He is not interested in customer satisfaction only sales. In fact you cant even contact him.

He is Nicolas. Owner of the store and the forum. An arrogant and angry and violent person. But luckily the store has little left. Very soon I hope that Laminar will launch its own store within the simulator and these discussions will be closed.

What I am going to say now is my idea and I have no proof. It's just my idea and nothing more. But I am very struck by the fact that Nicolas is such a defender of Flight Factor. It's strange. Is part or owner?

I asked for a refund of my money from the Store and Flight Factor and they have washed their hands and I have products inside the hangar that I haven't used in years.

Edited August 15, 20241 yr by Guido1996

I guess the key point about our dissatisfaction with XPlane.org is that it had initially a natural monopoly based on the early days of XP and a valuable repository for a lot of community or open input - Laminar in fact fosters this with the tools it provides for aircraft and scenery. The Borg has forgotten the reason for its being - as a hub for both commercial and private flight simulation. Yes somebody has to pay the bills for server capacity and operating systems so add-media and commercial product resale is not unacceptable. Trouble is their is no quality control on the merchandise offered and very much a caveat emptor ethos, fine if it is free but for money - no! Any retailer has a duty of care to not sell product that is not fit for purpose, is misleading or plain shoddy! Keep it up and your a bust! Customer is always right - correct - better to have a customer for a long time than to quibble over the issue of fault and refunds, that simple premise builds some might profitable businesses elsewhere - same deal as far as I am concerned. 

Anyhow glad to realise there is quite a collection of satisfied customers here. Thank goodness for AVSIM. 

1 hour ago, coastaldriver said:

Customer is always right - correct

This  I can say is not correct, have seeing so many users installing things incorrectly, not reading docs or asking questions than lambasting the developer for something that was a user issue, which makes me wonder even today why we still have developers, its getting worse.

2 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

I guess the key point about our dissatisfaction with XPlane.org is that it had initially a natural monopoly based on the early days of XP and a valuable repository for a lot of community or open input - Laminar in fact fosters this with the tools it provides for aircraft and scenery. The Borg has forgotten the reason for its being - as a hub for both commercial and private flight simulation. Yes somebody has to pay the bills for server capacity and operating systems so add-media and commercial product resale is not unacceptable. Trouble is their is no quality control on the merchandise offered and very much a caveat emptor ethos, fine if it is free but for money - no! Any retailer has a duty of care to not sell product that is not fit for purpose, is misleading or plain shoddy! Keep it up and your a bust! Customer is always right - correct - better to have a customer for a long time than to quibble over the issue of fault and refunds, that simple premise builds some might profitable businesses elsewhere - same deal as far as I am concerned. 

Anyhow glad to realise there is quite a collection of satisfied customers here. Thank goodness for AVSIM. 

 

I agree with you when you say that: The customer is always right - correct - it is better to have a customer for a long time than to argue over the issue of blame and refunds, that simple premise builds some potentially profitable businesses elsewhere - it Same thing happens as far as I'm concerned.

And the discussion includes several reasons. First of all, I think that the .Org is more worn out every day and there are more angry and dissatisfied users and suspended for ridiculous and meaningless reasons. Nowadays one cannot give one's opinion on .org because it is suspended. Nicolas got on a Pony and believed that he was superior to everyone and he was just another mortal who inhabited this earth like all of us. And this generates more angry and angry users.

Another reason is that there are many developers who knew how to be of quality and today they are pitiful for abandoning already launched projects and for abandoning clients. Additionally, they do not have a refund policy, which makes you buy from another website. Unfortunately the Store and many developers do this.

 And I don't understand why this happens. All freeware addons are published only in the forum. Everything is concentrated there and inevitably there is no other option than to bow your head and say yes to everything and not give an opinion in order to download what you are looking for or need. And not be suspended. It is a monopoly and a tyranny that will end when the X-Plane store itself comes out within the same simulator.

I would like to see a more pleasant virtual flight environment and not with people who do not help us continue to grow. X-Plane 12 has a lot ahead of it and with the community we are and the number of freeware projects there are we can be even bigger!

You could make a formal complaint to your credit card company or to the NSW / Aus version of the advertising standards' authority (goods not fit for purpose / not as advertised) about a) the developer b) the org

^^^^^^

Pot stirring!

Edited August 16, 20241 yr by The_Flying_Potato

55 minutes ago, The_Flying_Potato said:

You could make a formal complaint to your credit card company or to the NSW / Aus version of the advertising standards' authority (goods not fit for purpose / not as advertised) about a) the developer b) the org

^^^^^^

Pot stirring!

Got that one in the wings for later if I want to make life interesting however we all suffer from the same problem of location of the business in this case the US so you have to get the State and State law involved then. I had a win years back in FSX days with another bunch by finding they were in the EU and got the EU Trade Commission involved. The return was pitiful but the point was made, they are long gone now and just as well (Remember WILCO?)