Boeing halts 777-9 certification tests.

[dave2013]

48 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

the advantage of twin aisles is they are much faster to load and disembark passengers therefore much faster turn around times

I'm sure that's true, but would this alone justify an entirely new airplane?  The airlines definitely don't care about convenience or a better experience for the passengers.  Improved turnaround times may save a little money, but is that worth the expense to make an entirely new airplane?  What airlines care about most is cost per passenger mile, which is why a high capacity plane with efficient engines and long range is likely what their looking for.

Having said all that, a twin-aisle might work well if it uses those new elliptical wide-body designs that have less drag than conventional wide-body aircraft and can accommodate more passengers, but then you're getting into the 767 and 787 realm when you go over 250pax, so it's no longer a midsize airplane.

Boeing hasn't invested in a new design for a reason, and it's not just money, although that's the major factor, but it's also what the airlines are asking for, and how risky, costly, and time-consuming it would be to make a totally new plane.

I would love to see a ground-breaking new design, but I just don't see it happening unless some radical new aeronautical technology comes along that justifies the cost.  The Boeing Midsize Airplane concept pictures basically looked like a smaller 787.

They should make a 757X IMO.  It would suck the life out of the A321XLR and Airbus would not be able to make anything to compete with it for a long time.

Just my 2c.

Dave

 

[Matthew Kane]

3 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I'm sure that's true, but would this alone justify an entirely new airplane? 

Boeing thought so but the Airlines had an influence too, I don't recall the name of the twin aisle regional from the 90s but it was a concept at one time and a very good idea. The other project was called Project Yellowstone that was supposed to be the future of Boeing, it was a three phase project that was supposed to replace the entire 7-Series with a new Regional, Mid Range and Long Range from the ground up called Y1, Y2 and Y3. Only one of those three phases was completed being the 787 which was the Y2 project. the remainder of that project was abandoned and they decided to re-engine the 737 and 777 instead. 

Y1 of that project was supposed to be the new Regional, which could have been a shortened 787, twin aisle 2-3-2 configuration, but we got the MAX instead

Y3 was the 777 replacement but we are now waiting for the 777-X instead

This 'Future' that was envisioned is forever lost, and that is because Boeing is no longer the bold engineering company they used to be. The 787 is an excellent aircraft it would have been amazing to see Y1 and Y3 completed based on the 787 design, that was the future of Boeing

Edited August 25 by Matthew Kane

[Christopher Low]

That Sonic Cruiser concept was interesting.

[C2615]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:58 AM, Matthew Kane said:

 The 787 is an excellent aircraft it would have been amazing to see Y1 and Y3 completed based on the 787 design, that was the future of Boeing

We already have such aircraft in the form of CS300 and A350-100 don't we? 🙃

The best timing of launch such aircraft is probably early 2000s, however the 2nd best timing is unlikely today.

Boeing seems is now on the bet that new clean sheet design after 2025, like the sugar stuff could bring "787 era" thing completely out of date, so why bother still develop such old tech now.

But that might be what they were thinking back in 2010s, future is hard to tell...

[Matthew Kane]

3 hours ago, C2615 said:

We already have such aircraft in the form of CS300 and A350-100 don't we?

No because Y1 was supposed to be a regional aircraft based on the technology from the 787 (Y2) and the Y3 was supposed to be a new ground up to replace the 777 which would be larger then the A350. therefore nothing about Project Yellowstone was comparable to the A350, the Y1 and  Y2 was smaller and Y3 was larger

3 hours ago, C2615 said:

Boeing seems is now on the bet that new clean sheet design after 2025

That was the entire point of Project Yellowstone, completely replace the 7-Series, they cancelled the project due to pressure from Airlines and Shareholders and the fact that Airbus was already doing re-engines too, outside pressures changed the course of the company.

The other issue for Boeing is when you shut down a design department and not develop ground up aircraft for as long as they have, you can't restart that again, that portion of your company is now forever gone. To start that again is all new expertise and non of that will be based on the previous design teams. It is internal mentorships that grow the future of a company so saying that Boeing can stop developing aircraft for a decade or so and then start again isn't feasible. Historically it was the momentum from the 707 to 727 to 737 to 747 to 757 to 767 to 777 to 787 (Y2) that built that design team over 50 years and trained new designers by passing that know how into the next generation, you cannot restart that again after 2025 that expertise is now fishing on remote lakes around Washington well into retirement and an entire new team is.... well.... not good

Edited August 27 by Matthew Kane

[ViperPilot]

Boeing got too big for its britches, and now they're feeling the pinch. Stopped the Triple 7 tests, the Rhino production line is shutting down in FY 25, and they have no more 'visionaries' left in the well; they've all retired. Starliner is in shambles, they've got issues with their part in SLS, and public sentiment is waning quickly because no one's got faith in them anymore. Seems like they're in the same boat as they were in 90 years ago, and that resulted in the breakup of their Aviation monopoly by Congress.