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Guest j-mo

Feel like a statistic... now I'm depressed

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I don't start threads here very often, but I'm making an exception. First, a little background:For some months now, I've been plugging away at a RTW trip (the old "Slarty & Dean RTW Buzz," if anybody remembers it). Been doing it in the Eaglesoft Piper Twin Commanche. I've really enjoyed flying places I never would have otherwise, and using ASX weather, some of the flying (especially landings) have provided a great variety of challenges- occasionally rivaling FSX missions.Flying the TwinCo, I felt like I was learning a lot about GA flying, and seemed to be able to fly her pretty much by the numbers every time, and was REALLY enjoying it! I had encountered a handful of "emergencies" during this project and until today, overcame them all. Three that come to mind:1. A last minute need to divert to alternate;2. Mismanaging my fuel- I drained my tip tanks because I didn't monitor fuel levels closely (quite embarrassed by that!). Forunately I was at 16,000 feet and was able to recover- I really learned from that one;3. Sudden loss of power, requiring switching to alternate air (really gratified that I diagnosed that one).Fast forward to today. I was flying into Cairns Int'l. (YBCS) cleared for straight-in approach to runway 15, number two behind a 737. Nothing suspicious in the weather briefing or ATIS (scattered clouds, 10 miles visibility, winds 263 at 4kts), so it caught my attention when the 737 announced "going around". I use AI Separation, so I was pretty sure it wasn't due to any sort of conflict.Sure enough, about 5 miles out I encountered some form of shear/turbulence that rocked the plane, rolling it first one way then the other. I managed to get out of it still lined up with the runway, so I decided to continue my approach. Just before the threshold, the weather (or whatever) started rolling the plane again, so I gunned it and went missed, barely avoiding disaster. I was thankful that I had advanced my props all the way, else I might not have made it. It was a EXTREMELY close call.I re-entered the pattern, re-established speed, and decided I would come in without flaps this time, and speed about 105-110 (a little fast: Vapp Clean VFR= 100, and Vapp Clean IFR is 120) in case I encountered any more wind issues. Everything was steady on final until just before the threshold, and then BAM!, the plane started rolling AGAIN! Once again, full throttles, only this time... the plane rolled into a 90-degree bank onto its left side. I wrestled with it, trying to regain control, for about 20 seconds. Then, the left wing impacted the ground. Had this happened for real, I'm sure the report would have stated the aircraft was a total loss, with one fatality (me). It's been quite a long time since I've crashed, but what really got to me was that ALL the other times over the years, I've always known what I should have done differently. Today was otherwise. I've approached this project pretty seriously, always checking weather briefings, planning fuel, having alternates in mind, using checklists meticulously, flying by the numbers as closely as possible, etc. When this happened, I fully expected to regain control of the aircraft, and was stunned because I half-expected problems on the second approach, so I thought I was alert and prepared for trouble. And for the first time since I've been simming, I feel really disheartened. This felt so... personal.OK, I know it's only a sim, and I'm sure I'll get back to it soon enough, but I'm taking a break for now.If you've read through all of this, thanks. I'm not really looking for anything, and it's OK if there are no responses whatsoever. I just had to get this out, and this seemed like the most logical place.

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If you are using Active Sky (X), it sounds as though you have just encountered wake turbulence...DJ

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At least you were not in Multiplayer , i hated when tower used to report my altitude as 6 feet under the runway elevation...as the sim reset one was pressed to find words to exit the session a modicum of grace.

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>If you are using Active Sky (X), it sounds as though you have>just encountered wake turbulence...That thought occurred to me on the first approach, but there were no landings between then and my second attempt, so I wasn't sure. How long does wake turbulence hang around, anyhow?If that's what it was, what should I have done?

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Great story! I used to enjoy Captain Slarty's posts here years ago.Sounds to me not like wake turbulence if there was no one in front of you on the second pass and of course the only solution to wake is to avoid it.Could be one of those crazy thermal/overdone things that seem to be reported every once in a while.Anyway-I enjoyed your post and what you mentioned (other than perhaps this overdone thing) is what GA flying is about. I had one when I went flying the other day-on takeoff the right alternator warning light went on. The gps showed a voltage of only 24 volts (should have been 28). Flicked landing lights on-it went lower-and started to look like we were going to lose all. Moved the toggle switch from voltage regulator 1 to 2-and all was fine. Figured the regulator 1 was bad-then moved back to it and everything was fine.One of those things that happen...gonna keep my eye on it.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Hi, Geofa-I only discovered the S&D website about six months ago, and your name is still hanging around there! One thing I really like about this is all the narratives. Makes you look forward to where you are flying to, landmarks to look for, etc. And using the usual add-ons (FEX, ASX, GEX, FS Genesis) some of what you see is spectacular. Plus, there is structure, for those who like more mission-based flying. And, while most of the time the flights are straightforward, every once in a while a challenge gets thrown your way- and you never know when that might be. Seems to me this is analogous to RW flying, and that appeals to me.I had a moment of dread a couple of weeks ago flying from Dutch Harbor to Petropavlovsk. I chose to fly direct, rather than route longer and stop for fuel. I watched my "miles to go" carefully, and when I was exactly half-way there, I had 51 percent fuel remaining! I was very nervous, but decided to continue careful monitoring and conserving fuel as much as possible. The result: I landed with less than 10 gallons remaining! I know that would have been pretty stupid in real life!

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These are the sort of things that make flying fun. I had the same experience a few months ago, except it was LAX-Sydney, AU, and I landed with less then 1% fuel.

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I am glad you are enjoying our RTW trip. The original 'Buzz' started over eight years ago and brings back many happy memories.All credit for the wonderful narratives goes to Mike McKuen & Jozef Kusters. They made the journey that much so more enjoyable.Many others have made some of the flights and said how much pleasure they have gotten from exploring places in the world that they never would have even considered flying to. This is the reason why the site remains on my server.We added the 'Toylift Mission' as it was very topical at the time. I still think in our troubled world of today it has a place.Before GeofA graduated to the 'big-boy' real life world of flying Twins ;), he was devoted to his Debonair and produced a fine freeware model & Panel. I made a few repaints which can still be found in the Library -http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=...arry&CatID=rootI know he made it FS9 compatible; not sure if it can be done for FSX. If not there are many other suitable replacements out there, the wonderful Dreamfleet Dakota springs to mind. I don't think anything could replace our original turbo charged, long range Mooney that Steve Small conjured up.Who knows, I may clear the database and resurrect the Buzz for FSX :)--Dean

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Well, here is one simmer that wants to say "Thank you" for keeping this around. Besides the sheer challenge of flying RTW, there is much to see, particularly in FSX. As I mentioned earlier, using add-ons gives the occasional flying challenge as well.

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I've had the same experience a few times. It's as if a giant grabs the tail of the aircraft and pitches it over hard to one side. If you're fortunate and have altitude you can rectify it, but you're almost certain to have to declare a missed approach. The worst incident I had was right at the threshold at Genoa, which was unrecoverable. In no instance did I note an aircraft preceding me. I've also only had it happen with props, though that's quite possibly due to not having flown jets nearly as much.

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Well, I know that I have been through wake turbulence one other time. On final to KDEN, in a Beech 1900D IIRC, when I was overflown by a 747, also on final. Produced an uncommanded barrel roll of about 75 degrees. But that time I knew what it was (I actually recovered the aircraft somehow).In the incident that triggered my original post, I could actually see the 737 that went missed. Don't know what the problem was, but he was not lined up with the runway at all, and I don't think it got below 2000 AGL. I know that I was below that other a/c.So I guess I should research how far away, behind as well as laterally, should one be alert to wake turbulence, and for how long?Anybody have guidelines?

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Long since departed the FS arena I'm afraid. He had, let's say, a very laconic manner - said it like it was. Coupled with a very dry sense of humour, he 'sometimes' rubbed folks up the wrong way which didn't always go down well ;) He was a personal friend.He became disillusioned with simming and went off to pursue other interests.Although the Round The World Buzz was his idea, his departure from our community wasn't long after.--Dean

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OK, just found some.First off, I know avoidance is best.I also found this at the AOPA website:"If a large aircraft is conducting a low approach, missed approach, or a touch and go on or near your landing runway

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Hi Dean-Unfortunately, though the Deb will import into fsx, many instruments won't work (due to fs98 gauges) and of course the 2d views are not there. Sad for me, because other than seeing it fly into the sunset and on flight aware every once in a while, the sim was a nice way to stay in touch.Thanks again for your repaints!http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Hi, Jim-Thanks for taking time to reply.There were no takeoffs or landings at the airport at all during my go-around. I heard nothing on the comms, and would have noticed visually if there had been any other traffic. Only the 737 which was also going around. It vectored west, while I turned east into pattern.The only other airports remotely close are untowered GA facilities with asphalt runways under 5000 feet. --------------------------------------------------------As I've thought about this today, I'm thinking more and more about the wake turbulence theory, since I had two encounters on my initial approach. Is ASX that good that it produces BOTH vortices? I have really enjoyed this product, and knew that it could produce wake turbulence, but I'm REALLY impressed if it does this, even though it got me.

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I'm still burned by a landing in Bar Harbor, Maine in FS2002. I was on final in a Dash 8 with about a 15 knot wind just a few degrees left of the runway heading. With me near stall speed and at about 100 feet agl, the wind swivelled 180 degree to just off my tail at about 25 knots. To say I landed a bit short would be an understatement.Anyway, FS2002 was infamous for those drastic wind shifts. It stil bugs me though.Thanks for your story and good luck with the trip.BlairCYOW

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Hi, Jim-I sure don't understand all about vortices, because in my mind I was thinking there would be one from each wing. Is the one near the ground a reflection, and can they stick around for, say, oh, the time it takes to go around the pattern again?

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Well, this is incredible!Decided to resume flying today. I just finished a leg from Sydney to Melbourne (YMEN). Cleared to land runway 26... number three behind a pair of BAe 146-300's. Uh-oh, deja vu all over again! Not to mention there was a 737 on approach to Melbourne Int'l. nearby.I considered my options. I confess, my first thought was to go around, except I could hear so much approaching traffic that I figured I would only delay the inevitable. I remembered I had more than 6000 feet of runway to work with, and since there was five miles separation between each of us, I decided to continue my approach. Came in clean, fast, and a bit high; noticed where the jet ahead of me touched down. Sure enough, about four miles out, my plane began to roll, so I knew the wake was there (thank you for that, Jim!). Got it under control after rolling 10 degrees or so for maybe five seconds... increased altitude a bit... and held my breath as I continued on final.I landed past the jet's touchdown point, but otherwise uneventfully.YEE-HAWWWWW! My (simulated) piloting skills just went up a notch, I think.What a great learning experience over the last 24 hours (although I would not want to have learned THAT way for real)! There's definitely more "reality" in FSX than I knew.OK, I think I'll go back to enjoying my hobby again. Signing off...

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Thank you for one of the most interesting posts I've read in a long time. It's nice when folks talk about flying here - not framerates!Colin in PDX

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Well, to be honest, I wasn't trying to necessarily generate interest or be melodramatic when I posted about my failed landing in Cairns.Traditionally, I have flown airliners, but for some reason I found my interest had waned (even after being quite successful with LDS 767). SO, decided to have a go at GA flying. Didn't take long to figure out there were different challenges involved, and my interest returned as I grew to embrace learning how to manage the airplane instead of managing the computers that manage the airplane.I was genuinely disheartened when I made my original post. I didn't understand where I had gone wrong, and just had to get it out somehow. Having the sim basically recreate the scenario so soon basically blew my mind, and my feelings of triumph when I landed successfully were something I had to get out as well.Having said all this, I'm like you: I enjoy reading about flying. Maybe that is what the AVSIM Flight School forum is for, and maybe this post belonged there. It seems to me though that most questions there are data/facts type, and less about the "art" of flying.I, too would like to read more posts like that. Don't know if there is enough interest for some other sub-forum here, or if it even makes sense.

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Alex, that's an interesting account:) An accident when you

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