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pipersam

Scared of flying?

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To cut a long story short, I'm 19, been in love with aviation since i can remember, obviously have played MSFS for as long as i can remember, and have 20 hours clocked for my PPL. I fly a PA28 with Cabair for my PPL, and have never had any problems with any sort of fear of flying.However, I recently had the opportunity to fly out to the Philippines and I did, we flew with Qatar Airlines A330's for the whole journey. During every flight I was gripping onto my seat and sweating quite a lot during take-off, landing and during turbulence. I suddenly had a very slight fear of flying. I don't know if it's because I know a lot more about what can go wrong, or whether if it was my girlfriend constantly asking question like "what would happen if the wing fell off".So my question to you all is, does anyone have a fear of flying, or has anyone ever experience a scary moment whilst flying? It would be interesting to see peoples comments.

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I am terrified of flying, hence why I have 0 hours for a PPL lolGary HayesLevel-D Simulations Development TeamNo im not a "real" pilot, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.P4 3.0ghz w/HT & FSB..Radeon X850XT 256MB..1 gig PC3200 DDR RAM..Sound Blaster Audigy w/5.1 THX

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Maybe you are so used to being at the controls yourself that it felt weird sitting at the back having a total stranger blasting you into the sky?Most fears, or phobias are caused by a bad experience that one then associates with a subject, for example somone may see another person being bitten by a spider and then become arachnophobic theirselves. Have you encountered any bad experiences involving aviation lately?Oh, to answer your question, The scariest moment i have experienced when flying was when we were delayed and the cabin crew allowed someone to sing over the PA, give me turbulance any day:)Happy flying!Dave

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I think most pilots are control freaks-thus why they get a high "controlling" a complex machine with lots of real world variables they can master.When someone else is driving-you are not in control. On top of that-if you have no idea what they are doing or about to do-that can drive you crazy.Same with me-I always have to supervise that they put the flaps out before takeoff-and wonder when we make an immediate bank after takeoff if they intended do-or did we just loose an engine. If I was in control I'd be less concerned-but not knowing drives me crazy.I always enjoy flying United Airlines-they have atc on one of the headset channels. That gives some of the control back.In any case-I don't think it is unusual.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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>I think most pilots are control freaks-thus why they get a>high "controlling" a complex machine with lots of real world>variables they can master.>>When someone else is driving-you are not in control. On top of>that-if you have no idea what they are doing or about to>do-that can drive you crazy.>>Same with me-I always have to supervise that they put the>flaps out before takeoff-and wonder when we make an immediate>bank after takeoff if they intended do-or did we just loose an>engine. If I was in control I'd be less concerned-but not>knowing drives me crazy.>>I always enjoy flying United Airlines-they have atc on one of>the headset channels. That gives some of the control back.>>In any case-I don't think it is unusual.Exactly, I am the same way! I have close to 250 hours and am close to my CSEL I still hate sitting in the back of an airplane.

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>I think most pilots are control freaks-thus why they get a>high "controlling" a complex machine with lots of real world>variables they can master.>>When someone else is driving-you are not in control. On top of>that-if you have no idea what they are doing or about to>do-that can drive you crazy.>>Same with me-I always have to supervise that they put the>flaps out before takeoff-and wonder when we make an immediate>bank after takeoff if they intended do-or did we just loose an>engine. If I was in control I'd be less concerned-but not>knowing drives me crazy.>>I always enjoy flying United Airlines-they have atc on one of>the headset channels. That gives some of the control back.>>In any case-I don't think it is unusual.>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgFortunately for you I don't fly for United because, being the kind of guy that I am, I would bank sharply after takeoff while uttering the universal interjection for trouble ," Uh-oh ", over the frequency.Seriously though, you make a good point. I too am much more aware of things going on during a flight than the average passenger. In the "old" days before auto-land I was always keenly aware of throttle fluctuations on final approach during low visibilty approaches. I knew that if I heard him goose the throttle and I couldn't see the ground yet ,it may be time to pick my feet up. The scariest I've ever been as a passenger was on a 727 Eastern Airlines shuttle coming into KDCA late at night from KLGA. I found out after the fact ( I looked up the captain after the flight ) that the FO had never landed on Runway 04/22 (4900') at DCA. Since the weather was severe VFR with calm winds the captain allowed the FO to try RW 22. Having flown into DCA and RW 22 on numerous occasions as a crew member of business/charter jets, I knew it to be a tricky, but not impossible, landing for a 727. Everything was going great until he must have thought that he wasn't going to be able to make a landing and fully retarded the throttles at about 75'to 100' AGL trying to force the aircraft down. He must have been right at, or even slightly below Vref, because the aircraft sank like a wet crowbar to the runway. I warned my friends sitting next to me that this is going to be a rough one. I have never heard passengers scream in unison like that except in the movies. Many, myself included, thought for sure that the landing gear would collapse. Luckily Boeing builds some pretty sturdy airplanes.The captain said he thought about going around when he realized the FO was retarding the throttles too early but the sink rate was too great and it probably would have made matters worse if he'd hit the runway at full throttle, bounced and became airborne at or near stalling speed with a "dirty" aircraft.I always wondered if that FO ever made it to captain.John M

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yow that is pretty scary.The worst i've had, was an icy runway, MD-80, popped out of cloud deck at about 1000' AGL, into KORD. Strong 20+ kt crosswind. Pilot sat the back wheels down roughly, then front started heeling left. Pilot corrected, front sat down.The guy next to me puckered up when it started skidding. I was scared too but at least I didn't show it.I don't know enough to know, but I think it was either a very good piece of flying, or a very bad piece of flying.I am generally not scared of flying, but I can see how I would get uncomfortable if I flew one, and had to ride.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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I think your all right with the "not being in control" theory. On the way back from New York last year, we happened to be the last flight out dew to severe snow, and the ground crew managed to soak the APU bay with de-icer. There was a lounge bang, a few screams, but the crew remained silent for quite a while. Not what i call professional service, especially from Virgin.

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Im not scared of flying really, but as we know more about it then the "average joe " we know more of the dangers. My scariest exprince was, in a 757 to futurventure ( sorry if i spelt it wrong ) and the captin got very late clearance to land had to do a very tight turn in what seemed just feet over the ocean, i was on the wing and though hmmmm this one seems worse then my landing on msfs, but i was fine in the end lol

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>Im not scared of flying really, but as we know more about it>then the "average joe " we know more of the dangers. My>scariest exprince was, in a 757 to futurventure ( sorry if i>spelt it wrong ) Probably Fuertaventura. Isn't that in the Canary Islands or something?:)Maybe he did a circling approach.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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>Probably Fuertaventura. Isn't that in the Canary Islands or >something?Yep, spelling and location correct:-hah Dave

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It's all about probabilities, as opposed to possibilities, and rational application of logic.You might leave the earth, witness the spectacular view of terra firma from above, get from one place to another faster than possible on the surface, and then safely land. That is clearly a possibility.You might spiral in, screaming in stark terror until your body is turned to plasma by the instantaneous application of 50-100 Gs of force at impact, with nothing left but a field full of little red flags marking your body parts over a wide area. That is also clearly a possibility.Of course the probability of the first dwarfs...by better than a million-to-one in fact...the probability of the second. But alas, for some, logic and reason cannot be made to prevail, and they will remain prisoners unto themselves, dwelling upon the image of all those little red flags instead.CheerioBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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Imagine the phobias you could come up with if you knew the inner workings of aircraft intimately.... like most aircraft mechanics do. All kidding aside, Bob hit the nail on the head. There's not much I don't know about what's going on with the aircraft around me at any stage of the flight. Instead of thinking about it and dwelling on what might fail, I sit back and enjoy the flight knowing that engineering has done it's job and has made air travel safer than driving your car.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

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>>The scariest I've ever been as a passenger was on a 727>Eastern Airlines shuttle coming into KDCA late at night from>KLGA. I found out after the fact ( I looked up the captain>after the flight ) that the FO had never landed on Runway>04/22 (4900') at DCA. Since the weather was severe VFR with>calm winds the captain allowed the FO to try RW 22. Having>flown into DCA and RW 22 on numerous occasions as a crew>member of business/charter jets, I knew it to be a tricky, but>not impossible, landing for a 727. Everything was going great>until he must have thought that he wasn't going to be able to>make a landing and fully retarded the throttles at about 75'to>100' AGL trying to force the aircraft down. He must have been>right at, or even slightly below Vref, because the aircraft>sank like a wet crowbar to the runway. I warned my friends>sitting next to me that this is going to be a rough one. I>have never heard passengers scream in unison like that except>in the movies. Many, myself included, thought for sure that>the landing gear would collapse. Luckily Boeing builds some>pretty sturdy airplanes.>The captain said he thought about going around when he>realized the FO was retarding the throttles too early but the>sink rate was too great and it probably would have made>matters worse if he'd hit the runway at full throttle, bounced>and became airborne at or near stalling speed with a "dirty">aircraft.>I always wondered if that FO ever made it to captain.>>John M>Sounds like a recent F/O upgrading from a Cessna Caravan to our B727-200's. A few weeks ago, this new F/O was receiving his line indoctrination and was out on his third trip when I saw him bounce the 727 30' back into the air. During the turn, the Captain needed to get ground side for a coffee and a smoke. With hands still shaking, the Captain described the F/O's bad habits from the Caravan that he's trying to drive out of his brain. The F/O started pulling the power back at around 100' RA. At this point the Captain started calling Power.... Power.... Power.... Sink Rate.... Sink Rate.... and then arrival. The GPWS barely had time to pound out the altitude calls and they found themselves back in the air. At this point, the Captain made the call... "I Have Control" and safely salvaged the landing. The Captain knew the sink rate wouldn't damage the aircraft so in an effort to provide tacktile feedback to the fresh F/O on his bad technique, the Captain let it proceed but he was still shaking after the first smoke.... he was fine after the second one though.BTW, the new F/O did make his line check and is doing fine.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

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I think you're quite right.Knowing a bit more about airplanes than the rest of the passengers, I think it's normal to have this slight fear.I always find myself trying to calculate the rotation point during take-off by estimating speed from the visual clues and how fast the rwy lights pass by(about 50% hit by the way!), expect when the flaps will be retracted or extended, our height above ground during approach and several other normal things.But usually I'm not scared, except during one flight back in 2001. I was flying with wife and (then) 6 YO old son from Zurich to Munich on a Fokker 28. There was a lot of turbulance, rain and near-by TS. The plane was shaking like that dish at ammusement parks. At start, it seemed a bit of fun, but when we encountered some downdrifts, combined with some very sharp tight turns during our descend, I found my self grabbing the seat armrests and tightening my seatbelt! All went fine of course and the pilots made the smoothest landing I ever experienced so far.George DorkofikisAthens, Hellashttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/811520/1704.pngPS A related joke to lighten up a little:A stormy flight aboard a Boeing aircraft; an off-duty airline stewardess is sitting next to a man in the grip of serious white-knuckle fever as he watches, through his porthole, the aircraft's wing bending and bouncing in the tempest. The stewardess tries to reassure him; she works in the industry and flies all thetime, she tells him.

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Thats interesting what you said about trying to calculate Vr, and flap retractions. I too do that, but seem to always get it way off. Take-off runs seem a #### of a lot longer than they do in FS, as well as flap retractions.

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Oh yes, the flaps retraction guess is very difficult. Only once I got it (almost) right.For the Vr, I just try to be completely relaxed and not move at all, while trying to feel the acceleration force. And it helps if you are familiar with the airport and have took-off from there with the same a/c type and approximate load in FS. Now that you mention it... The only times I got it right were take-offs from Athens, which I'm familiar with!George DorkofikisAthens, Hellashttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/811520/1704.png

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Do you know a location where that van F/O came from?

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>Do you know a location where that van F/O came from?He came from within our operation and was based at YVR on the Caravan and is now based out of YEG on the B727.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

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For me, the more I learned the less fear I had, and that continues to this day and esp. through fsim. My phobia came from a 737-200 flight San Jose to Anaheim, mid way to Disneyland from CYVR as a teen. During climb, suddenly the engine power just disappeared, the aircraft severely decelerated, shaked, and I felt it slowing and sinking with every nerve of my body. The entire cabin went dead silent for that moment, then everything returned to normal.If that happened now, instead of needing a decade to shake a phobia, I'd realize the PIC made a simple oops and grossly exceeded the <250 limit, thus responding by retarding the throttles and deploying speedbrakes. The difference in volume between those -200 P&W's at full climb versus pulled back is why it sounded like the power disappeared. It *felt* like we were dropping through the air and falling because of inner-ear effects from slowing, and the shutters and shakes were from either speedbrakes or just dropping speed that quickly. I still wonder if the rest of those passengers believe they went through some kind of "incident" that day.Cheers-m

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Indeed it is the canry islands, im not sure what sort of approch it was just that it was scary but great fun :D

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That's interesting about cutting back the power. I still don't like it when the engines power back into climb thrust, even that small 5% or so of N1 feels like a huge amount of thrust being taken away.

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Quite a few passenger's nerves have been unravelled during the takeoff/climb power transition in large aircraft. But now, with the help of flight simming, you have one up on those pax that feel uneasy during this phase of the flight since you know that it is actually more worrisome to not hear the engines throttle back after takeoff. That hearing a constant full throttle could be an indication that something is amiss.Another example of the educational values of MS flight sims.

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I may not add anything new to what people have said here. I liken my 2cents to the fuel drained during a preflight, look for anything abnormal then throw it out. I have had some "thoughts" but nothing that led me to any concerns. I have my PPL in the US. I used to fly Cessna172's and have flown other single engine airplanes. I've had opportunities to "fly" in Boeing simulators for two airlines. I've been back and forth, across the US a number of times in different aircraft as a passenger.On a flight from Las Vegas to Newark, my mind got the best of me when I saw the 737 wing flex. I saw it, I thought about it, it raised my internal alarms. I got a burning in my tummy, my palms sweat and all my senses became acutely aware of every bump in the air.Then my thoughts turned rational. :) Wing flex is good. It was a Next Generation 737 so it isn't that old. Airlines constantly inspect their aircraft. I have friends that are airline pilots who speak of good maintenance. I could not recall reading about any airliner losing a wing. And if it did, so what! I'm at peace with my self & my God. Plus, the gal I was sitting next to was pleasing to the eye and quite chatty.Having "flown" in the simulators, watching flight DVDs and flying on FS2004, whenever I fly I put myself in the cockpit, going thru the checklists, the callouts, making imaginary radio calls (in my head of course). Once in the cruise phase, I try to figure out where I am based on dead reckoning, the views and sometimes bring sectionals along! :-roll As a human, I think it is natural to wonder how things work. Concern is a good motivator to investigate the areas you might lack specific knowledge in. May be try a search on Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards (ETOPS), GPS Navigation or aerodynamics.Tailwinds and Blue Skies,Jim

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