8 minutes ago, TheFamilyMan said:

the lack of eye tracking along with pretty much everything else I was hoping to see was very disappointing.

thanks for your report of the DreamAir. I take it that was because of its pre-production status, because the final version will have eye tracking?

I tried turning on smooth motion in VR on my Pimax Crystal light and saw no difference in perceived smoothness either way.  FPS was also the same (which I would expect because these are perceived doubled frames so I would assume the fps counter is not going to be higher.  Anyway I see no difference just as I have in the past in VR.  I don’t know if I am doing something wrong but as before it does not seem to actually work in VR.

All I did was turn on HAGS and the activated smooth motion for MSFS2024 in the NVIDIA app.

Edited January 17Jan 17 by thetford569

1 hour ago, thetford569 said:

FPS was also the same (which I would expect because these are perceived doubled frames so I would assume the fps counter is not going to be higher.  Anyway I see no difference just as I have in the past in VR.  I don’t know if I am doing something wrong but as before it does not seem to actually work in VR.

it does work, but obviously not for some. FPS do double as I have shown up to 90 fps in VR, which would otherwise never have been possible. one can not use the DEBUG mode fps counter but the one from the NVidia app, HUD comes up with ALT-R and ALT-Z. you don't show your signature, so nothing I could say as far as your hardware goes.

screenshot taken in 3D VR - Pimax Crystal Light, Preset K

AI says:

Nvidia Smooth Motion

 often fails due to incompatible game APIs (needs DX11/12/Vulkan), 32-bit apps, outdated drivers/Nvidia App, conflicts with external FPS limiters (like RTSS), anti-cheat software, or specific game bugs, requiring updates, profile tweaks via NVIDIA Profile Inspector, or disabling other tools to work correctly and avoid stutter/input lag

3. External FPS Limiters/VSync Conflicts:
   • Issue: Third-party tools like RivaTuner Statistics Server (RTSS) or in-game VSync can interfere, causing lag or preventing it from working.
   • Fix: Disable external FPS caps and VSync; use in-game settings or the NVIDIA App's limiter instead, and try RTSS's "Use Microsoft detours API hooking" if needed.
   •  
4. 60 fps - Smooth Motion - DLSS Preset M - Quality Mode - EGNT - Citation X:
5. 
6. •  

Edited January 17Jan 17 by turbomax

20 hours ago, Fielder said:

Nvidia smooth motion certainly does something in VR. It is not inactive in VR. With my 5800X3D which isn't a good of most as you all's, fps seems to decrease about 6 or 7% with Nvidia SM on. I think because it puts a load on my cpu.

not a higher load than FrameGen would.

what does lower fps down to stut  .. tt .. ters is not enough VRAM available for the environment and settings you are flying with, and this is even more true in VR. I compared 2D and 3D VR at the same situation and found VR mode requires typically 2-3 GB more VRAM. you can check the amount of VRAM your card uses using the DEBUG MODE frame counter, 2nd line from the bottom where it says: GPUMem.

at EGLL in 3D my card was exhausted and stutters set in because I had virtually all settings on ULTRA. I have since reduced TEXTURE RESOLUTION to HIGH and TLOAD and LOD from 400 down to 200.  An RTX with only 16 GB VRAM obvioulsy would struggle even earlier in VR at those settings. in conclusion: stut..t..ters and low fps are not NVidia's or Asobo's fault, but users need to adjust their settings according to their hardware. its not always easy to recognize where those limits are because the DEBUG FPS counter doesn't show in my headset, I have to interrupt a flight and check the values on my 2D monitor. the RTX 5090 with 32 GB VRAM would currently be the best for VR, 5 % higher fps alone doesn't cut it for me but extra 8 GB VRAM might.

here on the ground at EGLL my RTX 4090 was using 25 out of 20 GB available VRAM 😀 and the simulator has no choice but load 5 GB portions from the swap file which inevitably introduced those stutters, not the NVidia app etc. but lack of available VRAM:

 

Edited January 17Jan 17 by turbomax

" not a higher load than FrameGen would. " True but I think maybe irreverent in VR where Frame Gen does not apply.

With my system, I have lots of fps headroom in 2D flights, but I don't have much fps headroom at all when using VR. And SM reduces the fps displayed by OpenXR Toolkit in every one of my VR test flights, in every condition, compared to the identical flight with SM turned off.

I get 31 fps with no SM. I get 28 with SM on. I go back and test SM on, SM off, SM on, SM off. It takes time to do all those tests, one after the other. But the results were always the same, SM reduced the fps in the OXR toolkit display. 

It's one of those times that I have shut down the sim, not quite believing the last hour happened and having absolutely no expectation that MSFS2024 will boot up without problems tomorrow.

All my flights at the moment are VR and with the Pimax Crystal Light

But, after reading this thread, I:

- turned HAGS on

- Lowered my graphics settings and switched my VR graphics off DLSS Super down to TAA.

- Shut down MSFS2024

- Turned Smooth Motion on

- Rebooted MSFS2024 with the new Inibuilds A340 VIP

And (to my surprise) it booted up - and seemed a little clearer.  So I tweaked the sharpening and it was a lot clearer, cockpit and external, near and distant .  I took off from Ostend across the Channel towards the English south coast. Then - against better judgement - I tried DLSS Super at the Performance setting.  I thought is would crash but it was fine - and clearer still.

Then I tried DLSS Super at Quality.  Surely it would crash.  It didn't - and it was clearer still.

 

OK, I thought - maybe a fluke. 

So I tried the new IndiaFoxHotel Typhoon fighter jet.  I spawned myself at 5000' over the Thames Estuary and started flying, dropping down to buildings height up the Thames towards Central London.  Clear as a bell, no buildings popping up, distant buildings (such as Wembly Stadium) just as clear.  No judders.  Honestly, I have NEVER flown low over London before with this clarity and stutter-free!  I landed at Heathrow, which is usually a soft focus approach, but this time was sharp from the very beginning of finals to touchdown and taxi.

So I've shut down the sim with those high settings still there.  And I have NO expectation that it will boot up in the morning.  But if it does boot up and lets me fly with the same settings, then - hackneyed phrase or not - this is a REAL gamechanger...

    

Edited January 17Jan 17 by AJZip2

I cannot get the Nvidia overlay to show up in VR. I do see it in 2D...how do i get this in VR?

1 hour ago, flyblueskies said:

how do i get this in VR?

By design, the NVIDIA app overlay (Alt+Z) and its performance metrics (Alt+R) do not appear inside a VR headset; they are rendered on the standard 2D desktop monitor.

4 hours ago, turbomax said:

screenshot taken in 3D VR - Pimax Crystal Light, Preset K

So, I don't understand, how did you get your screenshot in 3D showing FPS?

2 minutes ago, flyblueskies said:

So, I don't understand, how did you get your screenshot in 3D showing FPS?

from my 2D monitor while I was flying in 3D using my Pimax.

as I said above " its not always easy to recognize where those limits are because the DEBUG FPS counter doesn't show in my headset, I have to interrupt a flight and check the values on my 2D monitor."

same applies to the NVidia App HUD statistics. you would have to use other tools to display fps in your headset.

Since the NVIDIA overlay cannot natively display in VR, use these alternatives:
Desktop View (SteamVR/Oculus): Use your VR platform’s "Desktop View" or "Virtual Desktop" feature while in-game. This allows you to see your 2D desktop (and the NVIDIA overlay) projected as a window inside your VR space.
Third-Party VR Overlays: Use dedicated VR tools like fpsVR (for SteamVR) or OVR Toolkit. These are specifically designed to inject performance metrics like FPS, GPU temp, and frame times directly into the VR headset.

6 minutes ago, flyblueskies said:

....

I see from your signature, you have a Pimax and Quest 3. I have both too, but haven't unboxed the Quest 3 yet and am undecided if I should keep it or return it. what do you use the Quest 3 for, how do you like it? I haven't come around to read all the installation info re. Virtual Desktop yet and was hesitant to purchase it when I am not sure I will keep it. I am not a big fan of yet another layer of tools/utilities to install ontop for MSFS. I was thinking of watching movies on it because it is smaller and lighter.

Well, I started with the Quest 3 and just went to the Pimax Super recently. I debated on keeping the Pimax, so I used the Quest 3 again for FS 2024.

I much prefer the Pimax Super over the Quest 3.

I only either of them for MSFS 2024.

I do like the Quest 3, it has a very nice color pass through, which I really miss. And using Virtual Desktop via Wifi is really nice too. But, the Pimax Super is the one I'll stay with.

Edited January 17Jan 17 by flyblueskies

8 minutes ago, flyblueskies said:

the Quest 3, it has a very nice color pass through, which I really miss.

what for, to see & control accessories while you fly? how is the comfort vs. the Pimax, does the lighter weight make a noticeable difference? I am undecided if I should return the Quest 3 and get the Steam Frame VR instead as a gaming headset while waiting for the Pimax DreamAir or some such. a pity neither have color pass through. 

5 hours ago, Fielder said:

" not a higher load than FrameGen would. " True but I think maybe irreverent in VR where Frame Gen does not apply.

With my system, I have lots of fps headroom in 2D flights, but I don't have much fps headroom at all when using VR. And SM reduces the fps displayed by OpenXR Toolkit in every one of my VR test flights, in every condition, compared to the identical flight with SM turned off.

I get 31 fps with no SM. I get 28 with SM on. I go back and test SM on, SM off, SM on, SM off. It takes time to do all those tests, one after the other. But the results were always the same, SM reduced the fps in the OXR toolkit display. 

I lost frames when I tested in VR as well yesterday and could see no perceivable difference in smoothness with SM on or off.  I see in other posts that he is getting the fps display on the 2d monitor.  I don't believe this is reflective of the fps in VR which was also one of the reasons it was noted that this didn't work in VR in the past.  I really don't think it actually works in VR as if it did and caused this kind of performance increase it would be all over the internet.  I have an i9 11900k and a RTX4090 and have gotten my best performance lately with the new DLSS 4.5 and Preset M on Performance mode.  I also have my resolution in Pimax play turned down to 90%.  That is giving me about 40fps and very smooth flight even in complex aircraft unless I am around a high detail large airport + photogrammetry area.  Unfortunately for me I am not seeing a benefit and will likely turn HAGS back off as I am now experiencing some judder in the headset after turning it on to test SM.  However I don't know yet if it's HAGS or the updated Pimax Play software causing that issue.

In 2D, if I turn on SM framerates increase almost double. In VR if I turn on SM, then they decrease almost 10% instead of increasing.