So if a pilot doesn't use VNAV in descent, Ariane shouldn't implement it? It is fairly common knowledge that pilots don't often use VNAV for descent, but the reasons I've always been told were because VNAV doesn't work real well for that phase of flight. Although in normal 737 operation, I'm sure VNAV is used as long as ATC restrictions meet up with FMC predicted intersections, at least above a certain altitude. Once ATC starts issuing completely different altitudes or they vector you off the STAR, then you most likely will use a simple MCP mode to descend.It really doesn't matter, ETOPS or Non-ETOPS, VNAV should be implemented for all phases of flight, mainly climb. Add ons should be implemented on aircraft design, limitations, operation, and functionality per manufacturer, not pilot preference or FAA/JAR rules.

As you will note, I said it was interesting, but also said it was not an excuse for not putting features that should be there in the thing. I wasn't really making any point other than one of interest.Incidentally, found another thing that is incorrect on the Ariane 737 for those who like all the minutia to be correct, and that is Cost Index, which only has a range of between 0 and 200. That would be correct for a Classic 737, but not for an NG, where it should go up to 500.Al

Well, I am still waiting for the manuals I ordered to arrive.For 3 weeks now...Obviously the money was immediately charged when I ordered instead of being debited on the shipment date.And of course there is no notice of any kind of delay in their website despite the (polite) email I received saying that they were currently out of stock and re-printing the manuals.There is something I've just discovered that really made me fly into a rage, something dishonest in the way this company makes e-commerce. Look at the two following screens.Do you see the price of the "Special edition blinder" in the first one? "from

Edited April 23, 200917 yr by Tom Allensworth
Edited to get images in line.

You are right, that price they list is definitely misleading. Of course you then have to proceed, having seen that price listed on the following page, so I'm not sure I'd 'fly into a rage' about it, but I would certainly think: 'you cheeky b******s', and not proceed any further!Of course it is up to the individual to decide whether they want to pay that price, but as people will have noted who have been reading this thread, I bought the Boeing 737 Technical Guide for 25 quid, and it's a fair bet that's got more useful info in it than the Ariane manual, so I'd not be buying the Ariane one.I noticed that another FS add-on seller did a similar thing the other day, on that occasion it was AeroSim (although in fairness, I think via a third party sales site): when I clicked on the 'buy' option for their 'Classic Freighters Vol 2', it then sneakily ticked the 'extended download' option too, adding a bit to the price (the price of that add-on is already too high for what you get to be honest, but as I say, it was my choice to proceed). I actually think that was more devious than what Ariane have done there, in that if I had not been paying attention, I could have easily missed the price hike, whereas it would be kind of hard to miss that the way Ariane have gone about it. I suppose it is no worse than when adverts have FREE in large letters with the caveat in much smaller type, but it always comes across as cheeky to me.One thing I will say for sure though is, given the reputation Ariane are apparently trying hard to shake off, I think what they've done there is not a great idea.Incidentally, here's another issue I've had with the Ariane 737 which I think other FSX developers would do well to take note of: Since it only has a virtual cockpit (which admittedly is really excellent), you cannot easily add the Flight Keeper ACARS gauge to the Ariane's cockpit. I've posted a question about how to get around that on the Ariane forum by the way, so hopefully it's not insurmountable, but as it stands you can't add an ACARS hotspot to the 2D FMC, because the Flight Keeper wizard which adds the ACARS panel bombs when you try to do so. That's not a fault with the Ariane 737 of course, but it is a limitation of going the '3D only' route, and a bit of a bummer for me personally, because I use Flight Keeper to get barometric updates and airport runway info when in flight.On a related note, and a plus point for Ariane, I found that the MCE add-on does not recognise the MCP in the Ariane 737, which is the case with many complex add-ons. Why a plus point? well, it is indicative that the Ariane autopilot is a custom routine and not a cheeky cosmetic job, as is sometimes the case with lesser add-ons.Al

You are right, that price they list is definitely misleading. Of course you then have to proceed, having seen that price listed on the following page, so I'm not sure I'd 'fly into a rage' about it, but I would certainly think: 'you cheeky b******s', and not proceed any further!Of course it is up to the individual to decide whether they want to pay that price, but as people will have noted who have been reading this thread, I bought the Boeing 737 Technical Guide for 25 quid, and it's a fair bet that's got more useful info in it than the Ariane manual, so I'd not be buying the Ariane one.I noticed that another FS add-on seller did a similar thing the other day, on that occasion it was AeroSim: when I clicked on the 'buy' option for their 'Classic Freighters Vol 2', it then sneakily ticked the 'extended download' option too, adding a bit to the price (the price of that add-on is already too high for what you get to be honest, but as I say, it was my choice to proceed). I actually think that was more devious than what Ariane have done there, in that if I had not been paying attention, I could have easily missed the price hike, whereas it would be kind of hard to miss that the way Ariane have gone about it. I suppose it is no worse than when adverts have FREE in large letters with the caveat in much smaller type, but it always comes across as cheeky to me.Al

I am quite sure this "from

Well, I am still waiting for the manuals I ordered to arrive.For 3 weeks now...Obviously the money was immediately charged when I ordered instead of being debited on the shipment date.And of course there is no notice of any kind of delay in their website despite the (polite) email I received saying that they were currently out of stock and re-printing the manuals.There is something I've just discovered that really made me fly into a rage, something dishonest in the way this company makes e-commerce. Look at the two following screens.Do you see the price of the "Special edition blinder" in the first one? "from

Maybe Ariane isn't to be blamed for this price from error. The webshop might be run by a voluntary fan who want's to help Ariane out. Just like the support forum :( Seriously, In Sweden this kind of advertising should be considered as breaking the consumer laws. Not nice at all.

There are a few good things going for this addon such as the flight model, but the FMC is a complete let down.Ariane webshop claims this on the 737-800X2 product page"New Advanced FMS Logic and highly advanced and evolved FMC."FMC is the worst I've ever experienced, the Wilco/Feelthere 737 classic FMC is more advanced, at almost half the price. Surely I should be able to claim a refund under false advertising. First and last Ariane product I spend my hard earned

Does anyone know just what the last item on that page is? What on earth would a customer receive for

Does anyone know just what the last item on that page is? What on earth would a customer receive for

I read through that 750 notes custom stuff and I too find it hard to believe anyone would go for that. From what I can gather, you get a repaint in your desired scheme, the seats and interior trim get a similar treatment, and you get a manual with a cover that is different.Or, look what else you could get for 750 quid (this from a current advert on the glider pilot network, also listed at exactly 750 pounds sterling):1/10th share of RF3 available in friendly syndicate, based at Little Gransden in Bedfordshire. Recent complete engine overhaul.

At one point during this thread, I came very close to ordering my second Ariane product.As a result of the thread being reopend, for which I am extremely gratful, I changed my mind regarding the purchase.I cannot comment directly on the latest product, as I don't have it (phew!), but adding my own experiences to those of others here, regarding the abominable customer services AND company policies, I shall certainly no longer be waiting for Ariane to 'get their act together'. Me, I'm offsky..... waiting for another 737NGThank you to ALL the posters of this amazing thread.

Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread, it has been great reading. I too am looking for a realistic B737 NG for FSX and was really tempted by Ariane's Website which in my opinion looks good and is very enticing. It gives the impression that their product is in a different league above all others and if you were really serious about simulated flying of commercial jets, this was the product to buy. Initially the high price put me off but then I thought for such a superior product, I should expect to pay more. I'm glad I found this thread. It seems that Ariane have a Ford and are trying to sell it as a Rolls Royce with a price and delivery times to match (not that I know how long it takes for a RR to be delivered). Ariane could probably sell alot more if they reduced their prices a little and opened their forums for us poor common folk to visit. Is Peter Tishma still connected with Ariane as they seem to be using his business plan.Terry

Hello again,I don't buy Arianes theory that most pilots don't use VNAV for the decent at all. I would be VERY interested to find out who, if anyone, they surveyed. Before my present airline (which uses VNAV or the equivalent on all it's aircraft types) I was trained on a 737 using Easyjet SOP's. Guess what - VNAV. My flatmate went to Thomson, yup, you've guessed it VNAV. The airline who's SOPs were merged with my current employer - VNAV. Of course we changed to FL CH later on if we were vectored by ATC and needed to speed up or slow down to stay on profile, but for the first 20,000' or so it's at least 95% of the time done in VNAV.I know Southwest initially didn't have VNAV to keep commonality between types, but even they have now reintroduced A/T and VNAV.It's by far the most efficient way of carrying out a descent. Ariane are only correct in saying that FL CHG should be used whan landing with QFE set. However every airline, and all my generic training, has landed on QNH. It's trained that way because instrument plates give minima as altitudes, and if you need to do a go-around you don't need to start fiddling with the altimeter.As we start to move towards GPS and managed non-precision approaches there will be no option but to use VNAV. I'm not sure which list to add this too. A lack of knowledge from Ariane, or a bare faced lie.Boeing's say on the matter

Whether it's a lie or a lack of knowledge, it still wouldn't alter the fact that the VNAV apparently does not work like the real thing, so it's kind of a moot point, however...I've just had an email telling me I had a PM on the Ariane forums, and that PM was regarding one of the threads on there about the VNAV functionality. The guy said that he'd got it to work properly, including managing speed restrictions on the descent. Needless to say that caught my interest, and in actual fact it wasn't the email that drew my attention to it, but rather the fact that I've been checking the Ariane forums fairly regularly whilst in the process of writing the Avsim review and I saw that post earlier today. I'm going to try what he said and see if it works. Oh good, yet another test flight to program into the FMC LOLWith regard to GPS approaches, one thing I do know the Ariane 737 aint got is IAN, which is of course an integral part of GPS approach technology.Al