1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

Sorry my mistake it was 15 million trees and 18 lives lost.

https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/learn-about/weather/case-studies/great-storm

PS I lived in Kent till 1989. And lived through it and want to work next day.

 

Oh yes, The Michael Fish event. 😁I remember it well.

Over 100 mph gusts I recall. 

Its good that storms are headline news, because it keeps people informed and more likely they will stay safe. The 1989 storm might have been headline news, too, but the severity was vastly underestimated. I think they are better at predicting such things these days. 

Edited January 9Jan 9 by martin-w

46 minutes ago, Antipodeslonghaul said:

I just got whacked in the head by a falling branch here earlier near Weilheim, Bavaria. It was perfectly sunny, calm, +6C. I drove out to a forest area to do some hiking. Suddenly, like out of nowhere, massive thick clouds, semi-darkness, gusting winds. I'd say 50 knots, but just guessing. I momentarily stopped dead in my tracks thinking I could get hit by a tree. They were bending at like 45 degree angles, wildly swaying back and forth. I briefly delibrated, there's a large snowy clearing to my right I could get away from the trees, or race about a km back to the car on a narrow forest path. And then just a second later, BAM!, I got hit, so I raced back to the car. I briefly looked at the branch, it was only a few cm thick, but man does it hurt! Anyway I'm sitting back in the car now and it's all sunny and calm again. Like a mini hurricane or tornado. I can't remember ever having experienced such an extremely rapid back and forth change in conditions with seemingly no warning (or more like I probably wasn't paying attention).

 

Hope you're not too badly hurt. Its amazing how quickly the weather can change. I see that a lot being coastal. 

1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

Sorry my mistake it was 15 million trees and 18 lives lost.

https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/learn-about/weather/case-studies/great-storm

PS I lived in Kent till 1989. And lived through it and want to work next day.

It's good to remind people that these powerful storms are not a new or unprecedented event.  They have happened many times in the past.

The good thing is that nowadays with our technology people can be better forewarned thus more lives saved.

Dave

"not a new or unprecedented event"

 

Frequency! 

 

Quote

Studies show heavier precipitation events are becoming more common, and rare "100-year" storms are occurring much more often, stressing communities and infrastructure. 

 

I'll say no more. 😏

Edited January 9Jan 9 by martin-w

21 minutes ago, martin-w said:

"not a new or unprecedented event"

 

Frequency! 

 

 

I'll say no more. 😏

This will also be my last comment on this particular issue.

You can post all the quotes you wish, but how in the heck do you know how many powerful storms there were a few hundred years ago, let alone a thousand years ago?

You don't, and there's no way you can know.  There's no proxy data for that.  So you can only state as fact that these powerful storms are increasing in frequency *relative to the average over the past 100-150 years or so*.  That's a tiny fraction of not only the history of the planet, but of human history as well, and it proves nothing.

Dave

🫣

54 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

how in the heck do you know how many powerful storms there were a few hundred years ago, let alone a thousand years ago?

 

 

Thanks for asking. 😁 Blue is my favorite colour. 

As it's my birthday tomorrow, and debates are too stressful for the birthday boy, this REALLY is my last awesome counterargument.

 

 

Quote

 

Scientists use various proxy data sources to reconstruct the history and power of past storms, especially from times before the availability of direct instrumental measurements (pre-20th century). These natural and historical records, part of a field of study called paleotempestology, help fill data gaps and provide a longer-term context for storm activity. 

 

Natural Archives (Geological and Biological)

Natural archives capture physical and chemical evidence of powerful storms over centuries to millennia. 

• Coastal Sediments and Landforms: Storm surges leave distinct layers of marine sand, shell fragments, and specific geochemical markers (like high Ca, Sr, and Cl/Br ratios) in lagoons, salt marshes, and coastal karst basins. These "washover" deposits are used to identify individual intense storm events and their frequency over thousands of years.
• Tree Rings (Dendrochronology): The growth rings of trees can record storm impacts. High winds can cause eccentric growth patterns, tilting, or damage, while associated rainfall can also affect ring width. Analyzing these variations helps document past wind strength and stormy periods.
• Ice Cores: While primarily used for general climate data like past temperatures and atmospheric composition, ice cores also contain layers of dust or other airborne particles that can be linked to major, widespread storm events.
• Corals: The density and composition of coral skeletons change based on water temperature, light, and nutrient conditions. Scientists can analyze these changes to reconstruct past ocean conditions related to storm activity, particularly in tropical cyclone regions.
• Ocean and Lake Sediments: Cores from ocean and lake beds contain microfossils, pollen, and chemical compositions that reveal past environmental conditions, including changes caused by storm-driven currents and sediment deposition. 

 

Historical and Instrumental Proxies

For more recent centuries, historical records and early meteorological observations provide valuable, though sometimes less uniform, data. 

• Historical Documents: Written records, such as ship logs, personal diaries, newspaper accounts, and official documents, often contain detailed descriptions of extreme weather events, wind speeds, and associated damages.
• Air Pressure Observations: Early, homogeneous records of air pressure, some reaching back to the 1750s, can be used as a proxy for past storminess. Scientists use statistical methods to correlate variations in air pressure readings with the frequency and intensity of surface winds.
• Tide Gauge Data: Extensive archives from tide gauge networks offer a valuable, direct proxy of coastal storm surge data, especially useful over the last century or so where instrumental records overlap with proxy data for calibration. 

By combining these multi-proxy approaches, researchers can build a more comprehensive and reliable understanding of past storm chronologies, which is crucial for predicting and preparing for future climate trends and extreme weather events. Data is often curated and made available through resources like the NOAA Paleoclimatology program and the International Best Track Archive for Climate Stewardship (IBTrACS). 

 

 

Edited January 9Jan 9 by martin-w

8 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

🫣

 

Don't worry, trust me, you can relax, all will be well, calm will reign supreme, as I am on Fluoxetine currently and my serotonin levels are boosted. 

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Hope you're not too badly hurt. Its amazing how quickly the weather can change. I see that a lot being coastal. 

Thank you! I got away with a bit of a scare. Was wearing a thick cap, that probably helped.

Speaking of coastline, sneaker waves can be quite terrifying! I've experienced them a few times. Like you're at the water's edge still in your street clothes and rolled up your pants as far as they'll go. You're mainly looking down at the area around your feet, looking for sand dollars, seashells or whatever. You think you've got the rhythm of the waves down, and then suddenly BOOM! You're lucky if you just get flipped over and soaked.

Oh well, nowadays one can do all sorts of adventerous sightseeing on (virtual) foot in the flightsims. That's the last time I'm ever venturing out into the real world. Nah! At least a little bit of freezing, getting soaking wet, being bruised, battered and shaken can't be all bad, when done in moderation.

People love to talk about the weather. Perhaps they should do something about it?

 

44 minutes ago, Antipodeslonghaul said:

Speaking of coastline, sneaker waves can be quite terrifying! I've experienced them a few times.

 

 I recall being close to the ocean taking photographs of waves, when I was in Guernsey. And yes, you guessed it, thought I was far enough away to remain dry, but mother nature had different ideas. Sudden wave surge and I was walking home with wet jeans. The water was quite warm, I recall and a salty taste was in my mouth.

Not the terrifying waves you mention, quite safe, but it was quite a suprise. 

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

These natural and historical records, part of a field of study called paleotempestology, help fill data gaps and provide a longer-term context for storm activity.

It should be called "phoney baloney".

Anyway, happy birthday.

Dave

11 hours ago, dave2013 said:

It should be called "phoney baloney".

Dave

 

Negative, young David! Negative! Such comments are not allowed on my birthday. Stand clear of your keyboard. 😁

Edited January 10Jan 10 by martin-w

Just watched The Big Freeze Of 63 on channel 5, minus 20deg deep snow for two months. power cuts coal trains stuck.

PS But for gas powered stations we would have power cuts now.