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signmanbob

simmarket heads up

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Just a word of caution when buying at simmarket.I'm a simmarket customer since 2005 and last year I bought a scenery there. Installed it, found out that it didn't perform even halfway decent so I immediatly asked for a refund.No problem, everything okay.A few weeks ago (since I have a new PC) I decided to try it again and wanted to re-buy this scenery.No way to do that?!?!Wrote a few mails and the final outcome and official statement from simmarket is:You asked for a refund after having used the software. So we will NEVER EVER again to allow you to buy from simmarket.My argument why they sent me a refund and how I should know if this software works if I don't use wasn't even answered.So be careful when you ask for a refund as you will be banned from their shop forever, even if you are a longtime customer

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Welcome to the real world. Simarket is just as entitled to decide who it will sell to as you are entitled to decide who to buy from.

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It's clear to me he's not talking about "entitlement." He's communicating about a negative experience he's had so that others can make more fully informed decisions about whether to do business with them.I'm sure we all understand the need for vendors to take steps to prevent piracy, but he's a customer with a history of buying who wants to re-purchase a previously returned add-on. If Simmarket wanted to protect themselves from him, why not offer to sell it "as is," e.g. no refund request will be honored?My two cents.Regards,

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What a terrible company policy. You describe a legitimate reason for a return. Rather than embrace customers who give a product an honest trial they penalize them.I contrast this with my experience at Flight1. I started simming about a year ago and have purchased ~ $500 worth of software from them during that time. Probably purchased 10-12 items. The vast majority have been great and served my needs well. Two of the items did not meet my expectations so I returned them. No problem at all. They happily refunded my money and I continue to be a fan of their company. They've built loyalty and goodwill with me. I feel good about supporting them with my purchases and have continued to do so. Just bought Eaglesoft's SR22 G3 from Flight1....great plane and wonderful company (both of them)!

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SimMarket is one of the worst companies when it comes to customer policies.I stopped purchasing anything offered through them years ago. I won't even purchase FSUIPC for FSX simply because it's only available through SimMarket.1) Limited access to a product purchased. There are indeed valid reasons one would need to return to their web site to re-download.2) Refund policy is a form of extortion. Don't ask... or else.If you think this is an acceptable way to do business... well, I really don't know why you would.Flight1's eCommerce Wrapper is the best approach.

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To be fair to SIMMARKET they do listen as they have issued this statement on sep 4 2008: As of today simMarket has done away with the download limitations imposed on ordered product downloads previously. Customers will now be able to access their downloads whenever they wish to do so and indefinitely. This also applies to ALL orders made since 2003. simMarket.com is a division of simFlight GmbH. [...] I think that that is a major step forward. Now as consumers must convince them to adopt a "fair returns" policy as for instance operated by Flight 1RegardsPeter Hayes

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I'm glad to hear that SimMarket changed their policy. I'm sure this is, in part, due to the honest and candid conversation we are having here on this forum.That's how it suppose to work and I'm glad to hear that they are listening. I'm willing to give Simmarket a goodfaith try in the near future because of it.

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"Welcome to the real world. Simarket is just as entitled to decide who it will sell to as you are entitled to decide who to buy from."I've heard you say some things that raise my eyebrows, but this comment raises them to the heavens. Do you ever share any empathy for any members of this forum, or do you always have to make such comments, just to dig into someone's angst a little deeper? I'd be curious what your opinion is on Simmarket's policy other than "they are entitled", or do you have one? Or is your role in the forums to simply play Devil's advocate and not offer a word of encouragement to anyone?My opinion is that any retailer that throws such a policy at its customers, whether online or brick and mortar, should be out of business. Sorry to say that our hobby is full of vendors who feel like they can take a dump on their customers whenever they darn well please as a form of "retaliation"--for seeking refunds, negative posts in the forums, and so on. But at least our community has members that are smart enough to post threads like this one and keep us informed. And in the case of this thread, his comments and public opinion made a difference. Helps make up for those members who don't seem to give a darn about anyone, and whose only purpose seems to be dampening the forums with snide or negative remarks 24x7.That's my take.John

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I think saying "welcome to the real world" is just a silly response personally and is only going to stir up the issue and is totally unconstructive.I completely understand protection from piracy, and strict policies are not a bad idea to protect the creators of the scenery, aircraft or utilities, however there has to be a human element of reason in a case such as this. If someone is trying to re-purchase something they already purchased and had refunded, there is clearly no piracy a foot.Let me give you an example of what I mean.. I have an aircraft from a company.. and I used up all my "activations" for this aircraft, and to protect themselves their software stopped validating my install... This wasn't a big problem.. I e-mailed their support.. explained that I've had some PC trouble and as a result have probably gone over my limit in terms of activations.. I got a nice polite e-mail back.. saying it wasn't a problem at all thanks for letting them know.. and I can re-activate now..To have a blanket policy with no room for flexibility or reason isn't adivsable as it just puts you on the wrong footing with those who you want to sell to and continue to sell to.. In this case, if someone is trying to pay for something because they wish to use it legitimately then a reasonable person would make an exception to this policy for this individual, especially if they are a long time customer.I have seen several cases of silly policies and also totally unreasonable charges.. I hear a lot of "well it's up to us how we run our business" etc.. etc... However.. what they seem to forget, is that it is also up to us who we spend our money with, and that decision is by far the more important, some forget this unfortunately.. Alienating one person actually means alientating all their peers, friends, family.. and anyone who respects their opinion on public forums... In avsim on the forums you have a powerful voice, and bad reputations travel quickly, so before anyone slams a vendor publically make sure you appreciate that aspect from their side too, always give them a chance to rectify the situation.... I would love to mention one particular vendor who in my eyes has lost all credibility, but this thread is not about that.. Other than that.. there are now very few vendors (and simmarket is one for me) I will spend money with now.. and will always sing their praises.. There are however those that have "burnt" me, showed me contempt and have been quite rude in their general approach to others.. so I do now.. and will continue to... steer all my peers from them.. and advise heavily against using them..I am surprised you're having problems with simmarket, I found their service to date good, and obviously you did too using them since 2005... However I have no had problems needing refunds for items.. I suggest you give them a polite mail and explain the situation if you can.. I am sure if they are reading this they will consider your case individually on its merits and I hope come to a sensible conclusion.RegardsCraig

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The original post was nothing to do with re-activation.According to the OP he got a refund because his PC wasn't up to running the addon not because it was faulty. He then asked to buy it again and was refused. Obviuosly mny don't like that but any seller has aright to decide who it's going to sell to and to adopt its own policy towards people who've been given a refund even though there was no fault with the product. That's the real world.

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>The original post was nothing to do with re-activation.>>According to the OP he got a refund because his PC wasn't up>to running the addon not because it was faulty. He then asked>to buy it again and was refused. Obviuosly mny don't like that>but any seller has aright to decide who it's going to sell to>and to adopt its own policy towards people who've been given a>refund even though there was no fault with the product. That's>the real world. And it is no way to run a business.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFIVNwiq8ls

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I've purchased from SimMarket for years and have always been satisfied with their service.I especially like the organized way that they keep track of all your orders if you every need them.They also have a great selection of addon products and seem to get new ones quicker than anyone else.Bob

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