Xplane10 and Occulus Rift

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Good morrow, noon or night to you all,

 

I have just spent a goodly amount of time looking for anything significant regarding the expected arrival on sale of the Occulus Rift. Nothing found but that could be partly explained by the expression "man look"  Our female flyers will know exactly what that means. I note with some trepidation, however, that XPlane10 is one of the few flight explained sims that this is publicly compatible with, although I would assume P3D will be working with reckless abandon and great alacrity to accommodate it.

 

I have had Xplane10 for some time but, despite installing it and having a good look, have never flown with it.  That is mainly because  I am using (sorry, was)  six monitors.  This has now been cut down to four to accommodate an overhead panel (40inch LED TV), a main panel screen (60inch LED TV) a lower cdu/fms screen (22inch LED Monitor) and a pedestal screen (24inch LED monitor)  I have not really done any further research until recently and found an article on multiple screens for XPlane, not requiring multiple computers.  I plan on investigating this further in the near future.

 

Back to the subject though.  I am curious about a few things regarding The introduction of Occulus Rift and outline them below...

 

1.  If one is wearing the VR set and looking at the overhead panel for instance, how does one locate the mouse pointer to click on buttons/switches etc.

 

2.  I believe the VR set is extremely GPU heavy and would like to know what version of the KRAY super computer is going to be required to handle it.

 

3. Will one need to have a monitor to utilize this equiment...I realize that a computer complete with monitor will be required in order to just fire up the OS and get into whatever game you are playing.  I raise this point mainly because it would seem to be a very selfish gaming system if you could not brag/share this new experience with friends who have no flight sim experience.  In other words, is your Occulus Rift screen duplicated on a monitor? Has anyone any experience with the DK sets 

which have been available and if so, could they share their views and opinions.  For me, and I would think, for many of us who are into the multi-monitor money pit, it could well be a very viable alternative to Monitors as well as a huge upgrade to the sim experience as I perceive it.

 

These are simply initial queries and I am sure others will crop up from time to time.  In fact, with the looming arrival of this and other VR sets, it may well be time to keep this as a forum topic.

 

I am really looking forward to your input and thanks for persevering with this long diatribe

 

Regards to all

 

 

[CyberMike 18]

I guess it's more likely to get SteamVR support because of:

http://www.dailytech.com/Oculus+Rift+Confirms+Pause+in+OS+X+Linux+Development+Some+Devs+are+Mad/article37354.htm

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/01/htc-says-vive-preorders-to-start-on-february-29-with-shipping-in-april/

[alpha12125 213]

Ok just to be clear, Laminar had a working prototype with the Occulus Rift DK1.  With the DK2 they significantly changed the drivers/interface and basically neglegted OpenGL releasing it in a unstable form with the vague talks of updating in the future.

 

This means that the whole Occulus Rift development came to a halt until occulus releases a good opengl interface. So currently i haven't heard of any new informations regarding Occulus development. Personally I think Occulus will not spend any more energy on opengl and rather focuses on vulcan/mantle (whatever becomes the standard) because you need a beastly GPU anyway.

 

So i think before XP11 we will not see any significant support for VR. Which is not that bad, because you need 70-80fps anyway for a good experience and that is not possible on any flightsim with high settings.

[Phantom88 3,287]

This is a pretty good video explaining Oculas Rift VR PC Demands and Expectations 

[Paraffin 2,197]

Ok just to be clear, Laminar had a working prototype with the Occulus Rift DK1.  With the DK2 they significantly changed the drivers/interface and basically neglegted OpenGL releasing it in a unstable form with the vague talks of updating in the future.

 

This means that the whole Occulus Rift development came to a halt until occulus releases a good opengl interface. So currently i haven't heard of any new informations regarding Occulus development. Personally I think Occulus will not spend any more energy on opengl and rather focuses on vulcan/mantle (whatever becomes the standard) because you need a beastly GPU anyway.

 

So i think before XP11 we will not see any significant support for VR. Which is not that bad, because you need 70-80fps anyway for a good experience and that is not possible on any flightsim with high settings.

 

That's the last I heard about it too, unless there has been a recent development I've missed.

 

And I agree about the frame rates. Many hardcore flight sim fans are probably already running GPU's that can drive the Rift and Vive VR for general gaming use. Something like Elite: Dangerous with a starfield background isn't actually that graphics-intensive. But flight sims like X-Plane are more demanding applications. Even without the OpenGL support issue, we probably won't have affordable GPUs that are powerful enough to run X-Plane the way we'd like to see it, and at 80fps for non-vomit-inducing VR, for another year or two. I think nVidia's next gen cards are due next summer... maybe those will be enough.

 

By the way, even when we eventually get VR support in X-Plane, it might not be something you'd want planted on your face for an entire flight. Aside from visual fatigue issues, it's easier to make small instrument and control adjustments when your visual field isn't floating around with head motion, and when you only have a mouse pointer to work things.

 

I use TrackIR when I'm flying, but I only enable it for takeoffs, landings, and if there's some interesting scenery when I'm flying at low altitude. Once I've reached cruise altitude on a longer flight, I usually turn TrackIR off, because it's easier to make any necessary cockpit adjustments using custom hotkey closeup views. With many plane models, it's just too fussy trying to control everything with mouse input from a single perspective, based on the pilot's head position. 

 

I'll bet VR will be the same. It will be something many people use just for takeoff/landing and sightseeing, not the full flight. So you might still want that huge multi-screen setup and enough CPU/GPU horsepower to run it. At least in the early years of VR. Once we have full haptic controls... data gloves with force feedback or whatever... and the sim supports reaching out and turning knobs and switches with your VR gloves, maybe then you'll want to be in VR full-time. Don't forget the intravenous feeding drip, so you don't starve.

:smile:

 

 

 

[tonywob 4,769]

I was lucky enough to try XP with the oculus rift at one of the Aerosoft conferences. I remember it was low resolution but it was quite an experience, i.e. You could turn your head and look out the window and feel as if you were really flying (Don't try it when you're standing up).

 

As for controlling the dials, you can still use the mouse and it's not as hard is would seem. If you are using a yoke and pedals, it also isn't a problem. The problem is someone coming up behind you and scaring you because you are disconnected from everyone else in the room :-)

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

 

 

it's just too fussy trying to control everything with mouse input from a single perspective, based on the pilot's head position. 

 

You should try X-Camera.  Just by switching to another view within the program, you can activate/deactivate TrackIR.  You do this by setting up the views within the menu and checking whether TrackIR is active in that view.  I use the OFF when zoomed in on MCDU or any of the knobs on the glare shield as well as the Overhead.  I use the ON for the pilot view and anything else where manipulation of knobs, etc. is not necessary.  Once set up, it's automatic.

 

John

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello all,

 

May I start with a big thank you for your replies ... none of which I loved LOL and you are all advised that I cried myself to sleep last night.

 

I guess that, at least for the time being VR and reality are worlds apart in the fllght sim environment.

 

Froogle video was amazing and fills me with hope for the long term, very little of which I have left. The dream though, of where our hobby/passion/obsession can actually go with this device remains.

 

It looks very much like I will be investigating the path of multi folders in order to use the multi monitor set up I have now.  I keep seeing what XPlane looks like in videos and at this time can only envy people who have it up and running beautifully.  I look forward to that.

 

For now, I guess I am stuck (not that this is a problem) with FS2004 which comfortably supports multi monitor set-ups.  With my system I am getting a FPS rate of IN EXCESS (great name for a band eh?? I am surprised someone has not thought of it before this) of 40 on ground and 60-70 in cloudless skies.  

 

Sadly though, development of new aircraft and sceneries etc is waning for this platform and the main reason for my serious investigation of a move.

 

IXEG is slotted to replace my IFly 737, Carenado Phenom 300 to replace my Phenom 100 and then seriously look at Bombadier and other mid range jets.  The change up will be expensive but I am sure it is all going to be worth it.  I guess I should also look seriously at the trackir5 system, although I can get the whole cockpit into the 60 inch display so I can only see a benefit in looking out the windows with the multi screen set-up.  

 

Any help and/or information on that aspect would also be appreciated.

 

Again, no thanks for destroying my fertile imagination, but very sincere thanks for your informative responses which will ultimately lead to my XPlane conversion.

 

Tony Chilcott

[razalom 19]

As someone with the DK2 it would be nice to try it on XP but alas it was not to be. I have tried P3D with it and its pretty amazing. In regards to the clicking it is not really easy. You need to set up a good HOTAS and also use some extra programs like Voice Attack. So instead of having to click a button using the mouse or HOTAS you can issue a voice command and link that to a key stroke. Not ideal I guess but does the job.

[Paraffin 2,197]

You should try X-Camera.  Just by switching to another view within the program, you can activate/deactivate TrackIR.  You do this by setting up the views within the menu and checking whether TrackIR is active in that view.  I use the OFF when zoomed in on MCDU or any of the knobs on the glare shield as well as the Overhead.  I use the ON for the pilot view and anything else where manipulation of knobs, etc. is not necessary.  Once set up, it's automatic.

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of how that program worked. I should try it.

 

I'm still not sure I'd use it instead of just disabling TrackIR for the entire cruise phase of a flight. I have that terrible immersion-breaking habit of just leaving X-Plane in a window during cruise, while I tab over to answering email and surfing the web until it's time to start the descent phase. 

 

From what I've heard, that's not very different from what real airline pilots do these days, carrying their iPads onboard when they have Internet access on the flight...

:smile:

As someone with the DK2 it would be nice to try it on XP but alas it was not to be. I have tried P3D with it and its pretty amazing. In regards to the clicking it is not really easy. You need to set up a good HOTAS and also use some extra programs like Voice Attack. So instead of having to click a button using the mouse or HOTAS you can issue a voice command and link that to a key stroke. Not ideal I guess but does the job.

 

Yes, that's another option and thanks for mentioning it. Voice Attack seems to be very popular with the players using the DK2 in the Elite Dangerous space sim, as a way to have extra commands beyond what fits on your HOTAS rig.

 

That might seem a little weird if you're flying a small, single pilot plane in X-Plane, but it could add to immersion if you're imagining a co-pilot in a plane or helicopter that is normally a two-crew aircraft. 

[irrics 1,517]

 

 

I have tried P3D with it and its pretty amazing.

 

I'm so so excited for flight simulation in the Rift.  I normally don't fly Helicopters or Fighters, but with the right hardware control setup, that looks to be a SUPREME experience using the rift.

That and aerobatics.....  It should be fun to expand my world into some other areas that really benefit from the immersion.

 

 

 

That might seem a little weird if you're flying a small, single pilot plane in X-Plane, but it could add to immersion if you're imagining a co-pilot in a plane or helicopter that is normally a two-crew aircraft. 

 

Not weird at all actually.... Most pilots I know, including myself, frequently are talking out loud to ourselves as sort of a mental walkthrough on procedures and checklists.  

I even talk to myself flying down the ILS.

[hychewright 46]

Hello all,

 

May I start with a big thank you for your replies ... none of which I loved LOL and you are all advised that I cried myself to sleep last night.

 

I guess that, at least for the time being VR and reality are worlds apart in the fllght sim environment.

 

Froogle video was amazing and fills me with hope for the long term, very little of which I have left. The dream though, of where our hobby/passion/obsession can actually go with this device remains.

 

It looks very much like I will be investigating the path of multi folders in order to use the multi monitor set up I have now.  I keep seeing what XPlane looks like in videos and at this time can only envy people who have it up and running beautifully.  I look forward to that.

 

For now, I guess I am stuck (not that this is a problem) with FS2004 which comfortably supports multi monitor set-ups.  With my system I am getting a FPS rate of IN EXCESS (great name for a band eh?? I am surprised someone has not thought of it before this) of 40 on ground and 60-70 in cloudless skies.  

 

Sadly though, development of new aircraft and sceneries etc is waning for this platform and the main reason for my serious investigation of a move.

 

IXEG is slotted to replace my IFly 737, Carenado Phenom 300 to replace my Phenom 100 and then seriously look at Bombadier and other mid range jets.  The change up will be expensive but I am sure it is all going to be worth it.  I guess I should also look seriously at the trackir5 system, although I can get the whole cockpit into the 60 inch display so I can only see a benefit in looking out the windows with the multi screen set-up.  

 

Any help and/or information on that aspect would also be appreciated.

 

Again, no thanks for destroying my fertile imagination, but very sincere thanks for your informative responses which will ultimately lead to my XPlane conversion.

 

Tony Chilcott

Hi Tony, speaking of FS9, are you aware of Sasha's EVO 2015/16 for FS9? It brings the sim into a whole new light. Sasha has done an amazing amount of work on the scenery, it is unreal what he has accomplished...... Google this and read all about it.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Again, hello and a very warm and heartfelt thanks for your responses.

 

I was unaware that P3d were involved with this project and have yet to see anything, other than the response here, about it.  Not surprising really, I guess, as LM are certainly  almost up there with XPlane when it comes to development.

 

FSX/P3D frighten me in that I have tried through about six hardware/software upgrades and almost 10 years to get anything other than an instant CTD  after hitting the "fly now" button in FSX using multi monitors.  Unfortunately for me, I don't know if I really want to go back to a single monitor or invest in another 3 networked computers to achieve a workable FSX. P3D is thus far untried by me so I should not comment on that.

 

Lamar,

 

I have looked at the EVO 2015/16 screen shots and as you say, they are mightily impressive.  I went through Sascha's website and could find no link to a download.  I did find a link for a donation so I can only assume that it is freeware.  I would have no trouble donating, particularly, if the  software is as good as it looks. I then went to the AVSIM library and it cannot find the EVO there either.  I wonder if anyone can provide a link to either a, buy now, or download site for this programme.  It truly does look awesome.

 

Last,but not least, could I possibly request a PM if anything significant on the Occulus Rift and Xplane 10 becomes available.

 

Thank you all again guys, you have collectively blown me away with your responses.  By the way, sleep last was a little restless but at least there wer no tears and I retain a modicum of optimism.

Bless you all

 

Tony

[Lenny777 299]

Very disappointing that X-Plane doesn't have a VR app out there yet. FSX/P3D through the Flyinside  app, do. And a shinning example of what a 64 bit VR built in simulator can show -  AeroFly Simulator2 is now out. The latter particularly looks great. I have the Zotac 1080AMP!Extreme 8 gb card and this sim looks super on it with maxed out settings. VR is the future.

[MarioDonick 752]

Very disappointing that X-Plane doesn't have a VR app out there yet. FSX/P3D through the Flyinside  app, do. And a shinning example of what a 64 bit VR built in simulator can show -  AeroFly Simulator2 is now out. The latter particularly looks great. I have the Zotac 1080AMP!Extreme 8 gb card and this sim looks super on it with maxed out settings. VR is the future.

 

Well, don't you think there are much more important things to fix in X-Plane than adding VR support? Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed by VR (so much I even published a long essay in media theory about VR recently), but X-Plane itself is still lacking proper ATC, proper AI traffic, visible seasons, etc.

 

This said, one of the biggest issues when it comes to VR and X-Plane is that X-Plane needs to use OpenGL instead of DirectX (because there's no DirectX on Mac and Linux) and that makes developing VR apps much more difficult, because Oculus have dropped OpenGL support long ago. Before they had, Laminar had a running VR demo of X-Plane, much earlier than FSX. I don't know about HTC -- do they support OpenGL?